Conversation No. 890-23

Date: March 30, 1973
Time: 12:32 pm - 12:56 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John R. Kernodle and James H. Cavanaugh. The White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

       Greetings

       Photographs

       President's schedule
             -Vietnam War settlement

       Medical profession
            -Support for President
                  -Foreign policy
                  -National defense
                  -Budget
                        -Congress
            -Influence of American Medical Association [AMA] and doctors in politics

       AMA
             -Numbers
             -Variety of ideologies
                                  -39-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                          Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. August-2010)
                                                   Conversation No. 890-23 (cont’d)


-Support for President
-Price controls
      -Policy
      -Necessity for control on meat
             -Boycotts by House of Representatives
             -Labor demands
                   -Wage increase
      -Control by market
-Food prices
      -Housewives
-Free market
-Medical fees
      -Increases in costs
             -Price ceilings
      -President's program on inflation
             -Support
             -Phase I and Phase II
      -Voluntary restraint by doctors
             -Cost of Living Council [COLC]
             -Board of trustees
-Conflict with Congressional committee
      -Division of institutional and non-institutional practitioners
-Health care costs
      -Institutional fees
             -Compared with physicians’ fees
      -Discussion of issue with Caspar W. (“Cap”)Weinberger
      -Physicians' fees
             -Small businesses
             -Discrimination
                   -Lawyers
                   -Dentists
                   -Architects
      -Report for President
             -Figures on fees
      -Discussion of issue with Donald H. Rumsfeld
      -AMA position
             -Opposition to discrimination
             -Minimal controls
                   -Organizational controls
                          -40-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                  Tape Subject Log
                  (rev. August-2010)
                                             Conversation No. 890-23 (cont’d)


                 -Organizational structure
       -Phase III
              -Uprising of physicians
                    -State societies
                    -County societies
                    -Unions
              -Relief for doctors
-Kernodle's office
       -Loss of personnel
              -Salary increases
-Group practice
       -Curbs
              -Income increases
-Control of overall costs
       -Education
       -COLC
       -Health care costs compared with physician costs
              -Budget
       -Role of doctors
       -Professional Standards Review Organization [PSRO]
              -Support
                    -Phase I, Phase II, Phase III
              -Administration position
-Rapport with administration
       -Elliot L. Richardson
-Members' criticism
-John T. Dunlop
       -Meeting with Kernodle
-AMA positions
       -Criticism in Congress
              -“Socializers”
              -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy bill
                    -Veto
-Political problems
       -Need for subtlety
       -Problem with Congress
       -Dunlop
-Paul G. Rogers
       -Work with AMA
                                        -41-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. August-2010)
                                                      Conversation No. 890-23 (cont’d)


                          -Speech at Rotary Club
                    -Florida
                    -Confrontation [?]
      -Political involvement
             -Commitment to 1974 campaign and elections
      -Phase III
             -Disruption
      -Doctors union
             -American Federation of Labor [AFL]
             -Congress of Industrial Organizations [CIO]
             -Press coverage
             -Criticism of AMA
                    -Washington, DC
             -Threat of strikes
                    -AMA opposition
                    -California, Florida, Nevada
      -Kernodle's support for President
             -Need for evidence of administration support
      -Mutual understanding
      -Dunlop
             -Correspondence and statistics
             -Meeting with Kernodle
                    -Report for President

Phase III
     -Criticism
     -Medical fees
            -Restraint
                  -Institutional care
                  -Bragging
            -Need for relief

Health care
     -Socialized medicine
            -Problem
            -Comparison with health care in England
     -US system
            -Strengths
            -Quality of care
                                        -42-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. August-2010)
                                                         Conversation No. 890-23 (cont’d)


             -Quality of doctors
       -Socialized medicine
             -Deficiencies
             -Right to medical care
       -US medicine
             -Comparison with European medicine
                   -Quality over quantity
                   -Demagoguery in Congress
                         -Charge of rich doctors against public
                         -Lawyers [?]

AMA
       -Kernodle’s predecessor
            -Support for President
            -Florida
            -Liberalism

Kernodle
     -Undergraduate and Medical schools
          -North Carolina
          -Elon
          -Duke Medical School
                -Nurses

Gift
       -Golf balls

AMA
       -Kernodle's meeting with President
            -President’s sympathy
            -Dunlop
            -Rapport with administration

Kernodle
     -Duke University
     -Philippines
     -Obstetrics and gynecology
     -Practice in North Carolina
           -Burlington
                                              -43-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. August-2010)
                                                            Conversation No. 890-23 (cont’d)


                    -Duke University staff

Kernodle and Cavanaugh left at 12:56 pm.