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Conversation: 895-008

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Start Date: 13-Apr-1973 9:16 AM

End Date: 13-Apr-1973 10:47 AM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Ehrlichman, John D.White House operatorHigby, Lawrence M.Sanchez, Manolo

Recording Device: Oval Office

895-008a.mp3

895-008b.mp3

895-008c.mp3

NARA Description:

On April 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, Lawrence M. Higby, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:16 am to 10:47 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 895-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 895-8

Date: April 13, 1973
Time: 9:16 am - 10:47 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John D. Ehrlichman.

     Weather

     Watergate      

          -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Richard G. Kleindienst 

                -Grand Jury       

                      -Donald H. Segretti testimony       

                -Immunity for former White House staff
                      -Jeb Stuart Magruder
                      -Justice Department policy for perjury
                                              -9-


                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                      Tape Subject Log 

                                       (rev. April-2011)

                                                               Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

                        -Gordon C. Strachan’s testimony
                        -Magruder
                 -James W. McCord’s testimony
                        -Recall of John N. Mitchell
                              -Grand Jury appearance
                 -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.’s hearsay testimony
                 -G[eorge] Gordon Liddy’s possible testimony
                 -Indictments
                        -Magruder
                 -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming meeting with John W. Dean, III
                 -Sally H. Harmony
                        -Preparation of reports     

                              -Liddy’s knowledge        

                 -Indictments        

                        -Liddy’s statement
                 -Illegal acts by Committee for the Re-election of the President [CRP]
                 -Funds for defendants’ payoff
                        -Campaign finances
                        -Obstruction of justice
                              -Legal definition
                        -Guilt of burglars
                 -Previous testimony         

                        -McCord, Hunt, Cubans         

                        -McCord        

                              -Connection between Mrs. Dorothy Hunt and Kenneth W.
Parkinson
            -Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
                 -Charles R. Ritchie’s ruling on separation of powers

     Ehrlichman’s schedule

     Watergate     

          -Gordon C. Strachan       

          -Ehrlichman’s call to Lawrence M. Higby 


Ehrlichman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 9:16 am and
10:47 am.
                                             -10-


                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                     Tape Subject Log 

                                      (rev. April-2011)

                                                             Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)


[Conversation No. 895-8A] 


[See Conversation No. 38-1] 


Ehrlichman conferred with the President at an unknown time between 9:16 am and 10:47 am.


     Watergate
          -Mitchell
               -Statement
                     -Content

[End of conferral]

Ehrlichman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time.

[Conversation No. 895-8B]

[See Conversation No. 38-1]

Ehrlichman talked with Higby at an unknown time between 9:16 am and 10:47 am.

[Conversation No. 895-8B]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 38-1]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Ehrlichman’s call to Higby
                -Strachan’s meeting with Earl J. Silbert
          -$350,000       

                -Disposition      

                -Fred C. LaRue        

                      -Position with CRP
                                -11-

       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. April-2011)

                                                  Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

      -Dean’s role        

      -Purpose        

      -CRP’s attitude        

-$10,000,000 collected before April
      -Disposition       

            -Herbert W. Kalmbach          

            -Bookkeeping         

      -Channeling of money
-$350,000
      -Disposition       

            -LaRue         

            -Dean’s conversation with Maurice H. Stans 

                   -Strachan’s conversations
                         -Dean
                         -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
      -Hugh W. Sloan’s knowledge            

      -US Attorney’s interest       

            -Investigation       

-LaRue
      -Paul L. O’Brien
      -Forthcoming testimony
            -Effect
      -Phone conversation with Silbert
-Strachan
      -Effect of testimony
            -Haldeman
-LaRue
      -Testimony about $350,000
      -Tax liability
      -Paul L. O’Brien’s conversation with Ehrlichman in San Clemente
-$350,000
      -Mitchell and Strachan
      -Strachan’s testimony to US Attorney, November 1972
      -Haldeman’s instructions
      -Uses
            -William J. Baroody, Jr.         

            -Charles W. Colson        

                                       -12-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. April-2011)

                                                         Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

     -President’s conversation with Colson, April 12, 1973 

     -White House counterattack         

           -Patrick J. Buchanan      

                 -Kenneth L. Khachigian       

     -Selection of staff     

           -Tom Charles Huston         


President’s conversation with John B. Connally
      -President’s forthcoming energy message
            -Connally’s assessment

Watergate
     -Connally’s conversation with President
     -Haldeman’s possible testimony before Ervin Committee
     -Need for independent lawyer to advise President
           -Role      

           -Leonard Garment         

           -Richard A. Moore         

           -Charles A. Wright         

     -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Richard A. Moore 

           -Dean’s departure       

           -Possible replacements        

                 -Garment
                 -[Horace] Chapman (“Chappie”) Rose
                 -Wright
                 -Edward Lombard
                        -Thomas E. Dewey        

                 -Edward Baumgardner         

           -Ehrlichman’s conversation with William P. Rogers 

                 -Baumgardner          

           -Lombard         

           -Wright        

                 -Appearances before Ervin Committee
                 -President’s conversation with John B. Connally

Ehrlichman’s conversation with Byron R (“Whizzer”) White
      -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                                             -13-


                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                     Tape Subject Log 

                                      (rev. April-2011)

                                                           Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

                -Interest
                -Washington, DC gossip
                -Importance of job

     FBI Directorship
          -Samuel L. Devine          

                -Petition       

                -Ideology         

          -William M. Byrne, Jr.
                -Daniel Ellsberg trial
                       -Ellsberg’s lawyer
                             -Health
                -Byrne’s interest in FBI position

     Watergate
          -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Moore
                -Possible statement by Haldeman
          -Possible statements by White House staff
                -Ronald L. Ziegler’s opinion
                -Content
                -Haldeman’s statement
                      -Funds under his control
                      -Segretti

           -Grand Jury
                -Segretti
                -Dwight L. Chapin
                      -Strachan
                      -Haldeman’s approval
                            -Referral to Kalmbach
                      -Seymour Glanzer’s reaction
                -Silbert and Glanzer technique
                -Strachan
                -Racial composition
           -White House staff statements

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 9:16 am.
                                            -14-


                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                     Tape Subject Log 

                                      (rev. April-2011)

                                                           Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)


     Refusal of refreshment

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 10:47 am.

     Watergate      

          -White House staff statements 

                -Ervin Committee          

          -President’s conversation with Connally 

                -Ervin Committee          

                      -Haldeman         

          -Indictments       

                -Grand Jury        

                -Ervin Committee          

                      -Magruder
          -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming conversation with Dean
                -Possible Grand Jury testimony
          -Strachan’s testimony
                -Glanzer’s questioning
          -Dean
                -Conversation with Magruder
                -Possible testimony
                -Mitchell’s advice
                -Executive privilege
                      -Perception of cover-up
                -Possible testimony
                      -LaRue
          -Garment’s meeting with Paul O’Brien, April 12, 1973
                -Note from Ehrlichman on Strachan’s testimony
          -Mitchell
                -Information from Grand Jury
                      -Kleindienst
                      -Henry E. Petersen
                -Possible indictment
                -Dean’s possible testimony
          -Sloan
                -Postelection activities
                               -15-

       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                        Tape Subject Log
                         (rev. April-2011)

                                               Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

      -Knowledge
-Stans
      -Knowledge of funds for defendants
-Henry B. Rothblatt
      -Statements concerning payments
-Money for defendants
      -Uses
      -Effects
            -Haldeman, Dean, Ehrlichman
      -Ehrlichman’s response
-Mitchell
      -Kalmback’s knowledge
            -Ervin Committee
-Grand Jury
      -Schedule
      -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming conversation with Colson
-Haldeman
      -Possible appearance before Ervin Committee 

            -Television [TV] spectacle          

            -Judicial test of separation of powers doctrine 

            -Executive session         

-Ervin Committee
      -Ehrlichman’s negotiations with Ervin         

            -Courtroom rules         

            -Executive session         

      -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming call to Howard H. Baker, Jr. 

            -William E. Brock III and George H. W. Bush 

                  -Televised hearings         

-Haldeman
      -Possible public statement
      -Possible Grand Jury testimony
            -Strachan’s and Chapin’s testimony         

            -Segretti       

-Haldeman’s possible public statement
      -Content
      -Colson, Buchanan, Khachigian, Baroody, W. Richard Howard
            -Evidence against George S. McGovern’s campaign
                                -16-

       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. April-2011)

                                                  Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

      -Segretti        

      -Money         

      -Congressional leadership, Cabinet      

      -White House staff meeting       

            -Haldeman address        

            -Friendly forum

            -News reports concerning Watergate     

                   -Kenneth W. Clawson
-Colson
      -Possible statement
-Haldeman
      -Possible statement
-Dean
      -Possible statement
-Haldeman
      -Possible statement
      -White House staff
      -Chapin
      -Strachan
      -Colson, Dean
-Colson
      -Possible statement
      -Forthcoming conversation with Ehrlichman
-Haldeman
      -Possible statement
-Dean
      -Leave
-Possible special counsel
      -Wright
      -Lombard
      -Wright
            -Relationship with Ervin     

      -Thomas G. Corcoran         

            -Knowledge of government        

                   -Bachelor     

                   -Widower      

      -Dean’s testimony
                                            -17-


                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                      Tape Subject Log 

                                       (rev. April-2011)

                                                             Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)


    FBI Directorship     

         -Possible nominees       

         -White      


    Ehrlichman’s call to Barry M. Goldwater 

          -Goldwater’s schedule      

               -Arizona, California     


    Legal services       

         -White House staff opinion 

         -President’s opinion        

         -Independent corporations [?]       

         -Howard J. Phillips       

         -Legislation        

                -Modification
                -Phillips’s view
                       American Bar Association [ABA]
                -Administration’s bill

    Watergate
         -Spiro T. Agnew        

               -Statement       

               -Meeting with Haldeman         

               -Investigation of bribery    

                     -Agnew’s service as Governor of Maryland
                           -Haldeman’s assistance in stopping investigation
                     -Statement on Watergate
                           -Ehrlichman’s assessment


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

    President’s conversation with Connally 

          -Political party affiliation  

                                          -18-


                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                   Tape Subject Log 

                                    (rev. April-2011)

                                                           Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************


    Watergate      

         -Connally’s advice         

               -Campaign financing              

         -Segretti      

               -Plea of self-incrimination        

               -Possible testimony by Chapin        

               -Lawyer’s advice            

               -Possible statement by Haldeman            

               -Chapin         

                     -Possible statement to White House staff
                             -Relationship to Haldeman’s possible statement
         -John D. Ehrlichman’s conversation with Ziegler and Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin
               -Haldeman’s image              

                     -Possible leave of absence         

                     -Agnew          

         -President’s conversation with Connally
               -Leaves of absence            

                     -Dean        

                     -Haldeman           

                             -Impact of decision      

         -Haldeman         

               -Possible appearance before Ervin Committee 

                     -Segretti         

               -Possible leave of absence         

                     -Effect
               -Duties in White House
               -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming meeting with Haldeman
                     -Statement
               -Segretti’s activities
                     -Magician
                     -Campaign practices
                     -“Canuck” letter
                     -Letter on Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson and Hubert H. Humphrey
                                          -19-


                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                   Tape Subject Log 

                                    (rev. April-2011)

                                                           Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

                            -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
                            -Violation of federal statute
                     -Possible disbarment
         -Ervin Committee
               -Chapin and Haldeman appearance
               -Ehrlichman’s negotiation with Ervin and Baker
                     -Executive session
               -Precedents set by Kissinger
               -Statement about White House offer
               -Public televised hearings
                     -Opinion of Ziegler and Moore
                     -White House public position on Committee’s interests
               -Ehrlichman’s negotiations with Ervin and Baker
                     -Chicago Tribune story
                     -Ehrlichman’s possible call to Aldo Beckman
                     -Effect
         -President’s conversation with Connally
               -Ehrlichman’s schedule         

                     -Dean        

                     -Colson         

               -Haldeman compared with Connally           

         -White House relationship with Ervin Committee 

               -Headlines
                     -Wright
                     -Possible statement by Haldeman and Chapin
               -Ervin’s letter to Ritchie
                     -Richey’s assessment of Ervin’s action
                            -Richey’s intelligence
               -Statements for Haldeman and Chapin
                     -Buchanan’s drafts
                            -Compared to Raymond K. Price, Jr. and David R. Gergen


***************************************************************** 

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4 

[Privacy] 

[Duration: 3 s ] 

                                           -20-


                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                    Tape Subject Log 

                                     (rev. April-2011)

                                                              Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
*****************************************************************


    Watergate     

         -White House relationship with Ervin Committee 

              -Statements for Haldeman and Chapin 

                    -Buchanan’s drafts      

                          -Working       

                    -Content      


    President’s meeting with Congressmen, April 12, 1973 

          -Joe D. Waggonner’s conversation with President 

                -Administration’s goal
                      -Vetoes
                      -Support for President
                      -Veteran’s bill
          -John L. McClellan        

          -Hugh Scott       

                -Assessment of speech        

          -Gerald R. Ford       

                -Assessment of speech        

          -Richard W. Bolling         

          -Economic stabilization       

                -Opinions of Carl B. Albert
                      -Changes
                -Lobbying against rollback of prices
                -Albert
                      -Lobbying groups
                            -Oklahoma cattle growers

    Watergate      

         -Ervin Committee        

         -Charges of cover-up       

               -Reaction to Ziegler’s statement
               -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming conversation with Dean
                                          -21-

              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. April-2011)

                                                               Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

                  -Mitchell       

                  -Kleindienst         

                  -Dean       

      -Grand Jury testimony         

            -Liddy testimony          

            -Harmony        

                  -Copies of reports for Haldeman         

      -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Colson 

      -Hunt’s testimony         


National economy
     -President’s conversation with Connally
           -President’s actions           

                  -Spokesperson              

                  -Decisive action               

                         -Lumber           

                  -Price freeze         

     -Ehrlichman’s meeting with Alan Greenspan 

           -Reaction to Herbert Stein’s paper 

           -Price competitiveness of foreign products 

                  -Sony        

                  -Datsun        

                  -Effects of devaluation                

                         -Flexibility of price setting     

           -Phase II’s effects        

                  -Greenspan’s clients               

           -Effects of wage and price controls 

                  -Mythology of effects                

                  -Political effects             

                  -1974 elections              

     -President’s conversation with Connally 

           -1971 controls decision                 

           -Inflation       

                  -Economic boom

     -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Greenspan 

           -Natural moderation of the economy 

     -Pierre Rinfret’s letter to President 

                                             -22-


                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                     Tape Subject Log 

                                      (rev. April-2011)

                                                                  Conversation No. 895-8 (cont’d)

                 -Freezes
                 -Inflation      

                        -Brazil      

                        -Uruguay       

                 -Spokesperson
                 -Indices of consumer confidence
                 -Recession
                 -Michigan Survey
                 -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Greenspan
                        -Rinfret
                              -Letter
                              -Greenspan’s assessment of Rinfet
                        -Arthur F. Burns       

                 -Rinfret’s concern with Wall Street 

                 -Greenspan’s analysis       

                        -President’s weekend reading

     Watergate
          -Ehrlichman’s frothcoming conversations         

                -Dean      

                -Colson      

                -Haldeman      


Ehrlichman left at 10:47 am.