Nixon, Kendall & Arantes do Nascimento on Watergate and PepsiCo

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Don Campbell, make the introductions here.

How do you do?

Nice to see you.

Well, we're glad to have you here.

I've been hearing all about you.

Yes.

Hello, Don.

How are you?

I appreciate that.

Well, how have you been doing?

Yeah, you're having a good tour, I hope, of science and technology.

I don't know if I have... You're not mine.

You're not mine.

I don't know.

What does he mean, this thing?

He was planning to... That's right.

I know.

We get this in front of the flag.

We've got to press it.

That was in the airport down in Seville.

It's all right.

We'll hold this, too.

Let's do it.

That's interesting.

You have it.

You were playing.

Thank you very much.

I have a football ball there.

I have a soccer ball.

I have a football.

I think that it's a little bit more of an adult problem.

I think there's more time on their own.

They weren't there last year.

I think that they put a lot of effort into it.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Oh, so I know.

I'll get to the extraction.

I'll tell you.

The main thing on this case is that it was the head.

And it's only supposed to be the head.

It doesn't matter.

It's what it is.

Now, what do we do?

What do we do?

Thank you.

Your grandson.

There is a seal present on the seal.

And the seal is against him.

And the seal is down there.

Present on the seal.

On the seal.

Absolutely.

It's precious.

I like to encourage young people to play sports.

I don't think we have as many sports here as we used to.

I think that's what I'm saying.

Harry, I've been waiting for you.

I hope so.

Is there any plan at your disposal to cooperate with this program?

There's been a lot of discursive movement in the U.S.

It is the sports authorities that are out there right now.

So this is a technical problem, but I think that naturally it will be sent to the U.S.

It will be sent to the coaches for soccer.

It will be sent to the coaches for basketball, swimming, and track and field.

This is a change, correct?

Well, I suppose it's a good spot to look at by that view, isn't it?

Well, for the day, that works.

It makes friends.

Very good.

It works.

It makes friends.

I'm not lucky with that.

I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to do that.

I hope you're not.

I've met my wonderful presentators in our country.

They will like both of you.

Thank you.

Well, thank you.

If there's an issue, if there's an issue, don't sit down.

I'm out of here.

We've got our soccer ball.

I got your note about it.

The problem is the one that you can't have anybody.

And I don't know how that works.

In fact, it works for you.

That's what I said.

I said that's the only negative.

And I want a totally independent thing.

And that's what I'm setting up here at Coe Richardson.

I don't want somebody, I don't even ask them to go there.

I want a totally independent person.

Because the main thing is that people have to think that it's being done.

You know, they are going out, and I can assure you the investigation is now going forward totally.

And they'll get to the bottom of this one eventually, one way or another.

But the people have got to believe it.

You see, with Deloach, they say, well, who's D. Deloach?

Oh, yeah, he worked for Don Kendall.

Who's Don Kendall?

Chairman of the Businessmen for Nixon.

Vote workers.

I've got another suggestion.

I think that the thing I'm worried about more than anything is the integrity of the office.

And people now doubt it.

I mean, you saw the poll.

And that thing has got to be changed around.

It's not only you with the office, it's the country.

I think there's an attitude now of people

responsible people, and even some of the reporters who have launched attacks are now worried about that.

Right.

I think that there's a possibility you can turn the thing around if the timing is right, and you wait until the public, which is, I think, they're getting to the point now to where they want to believe you.

The television thing, I don't think, solved it.

I think he went a long way towards solving it.

But it didn't do it.

And there's still a lot of people who question your involvement.

And I think that you've got to use the same type of approach that has been used on the leaks around here.

The only thing that people now believe is not what you put out in the press.

It's what somebody picked up on a leak.

I mean, that's the only thing they believe.

So what I think you ought to do is that you ought to write a memorandum to Hague.

Tell Haig all the anguish, the personal problems that you've had going through this period.

And what has happened, and the reason you're positioning this is that you don't want this same type of thing to ever happen again in your administration.

Anything that comes up that is going to affect integrity of this office, you want to know about it, because you don't want him to make that type of decision.

And you want to blister Haldeman and Erichman.

Now, this, I know, is a tough thing for you to do.

But what you have publicly defended, Haldeman and Ehrlichman, which people admire, the fact that you've got loyalties and...

But I made them resign to it, which is tough.

Well, of course it is tough as hell.

Right.

Well, you have no choice because you've got to think about the opposite.

I mean, this is not... Their home is going to be found on a building that's too bad there.

No, it's a horrible thing.

I mean, these two guys live there.

I think it's a good idea to get exactly what you mean, but then get it out through a leak rather than a... You do.

You get the thing.

You get the memorandum.

You give me the memorandum.

I will guarantee that Jack Anderson will print it.

Okay.

All right.

Now, I'll tell you what Anderson said yesterday.

He doesn't want to be compromised on this.

I had lunch with Jack yesterday.

and I've got a very good relationship with him.

Yeah.

He totally investigated the Russia deal.

You know, they were trying to say that you did the thing for me, that I flew to Russia with Kissinger, and there was a Chicago paper.

So Anderson investigated this, and he came out and wrote a beautiful story.

He got mad as hell because people were trying to say this, and he found out that I sent you to, that you did the Pepsi deal for me.

You know, the man who went to whatever he did, the guy that, the governor.

Man who went to.

He's going around to all the colleges now saying that this is the payoff, that you're paying me off for what I did in the early days in the law business.

So he's... John, you did the whole deal yourself.

Well, I told Jack, I said, God damn, this is the biggest sales job I ever did in my life.

And I said, I'd like to get the credit for this right now.

That's right.

Well, you came and told me about it.

I never mentioned Pepsi to the bastards, and I've never been there to use it.

Well, you know, they don't operate that anymore.

Well, anyway, so Henderson did.

That's a beautiful story.

He also took apart the FTC.

They were trying to say that I was getting help from FTC.

And FTC, in our Ryan Grover deal, we had the three Republicans voted against us and two Democrats voted for us.

So obviously there wasn't any political thing.

So he just tore it all apart.

Anderson told me yesterday, he is absolutely convinced, he has investigated that you had nothing to do with this.

He is now upset about the liberals who are going to keep the attack, the jackals, as he calls, to try and destroy the system and the integrity of this office.

He said, I'm going to attack the president any time I get a chance.

But he said, now they're attacking the system, and I believe in this country.

And he says, the only way you're going to correct this is to leave.

So if you will write a memorandum of the head and just give it—

A confidential memorandum.

What you do is you go through the personal items that you've had in the past.

You review that form, which is an actual thing to do, and tell him that you don't want this to happen again.

In other words, you go through all the problems that you've had the last few months and what it meant to you to do with Hall and me.

And then you have to blister them and say that they let you down by not keeping you informed, that you don't want something like this to happen without being informed of all the details, because this attacks the integrity of the office, and you don't want...

The thing about getting leaked is, of course, that Haig is the last person to ever do anything, so maybe you'll have to write it to him.

You see what I mean?

Nobody would believe it if it got out of Hague.

Do you see what I mean?

No, but you can do that if I leave it.

If it ever comes out, nobody knows what's his, what... No, but what I meant is you've got to figure a way so that it is passed to some other, to Hague in one of their hands.

You see what I mean?

So they figured that Hague wouldn't even leave it to you, is my point.

Well, what... You've got to figure a way that... What you could do if it got... No one knows where his...

Sources.

He's got it.

Anderson's got a source in the White House.

What it is, I don't know, and I don't think anybody doesn't.

He obviously is not telling.

If I said it, and you ever go out and say, well, how did he get it, or say it's not that I was in the office with you, I asked you what you were doing to make sure this didn't happen again, and you had it done on random.

Let me do it.

I don't want to do it right today.

I think it would be a little too close to our visit.

You know what I mean?

But we should have thought about it.

But I think it's a very good idea.

I'll write something.

And then he does a complete story about it.

And if Anderson comes out with it, nobody can say this is somebody that is playing the party rock.

Yeah.

And it goes, he's the biggest columnist in the country.

And even this has got to get the Washington Post and the Times and even turn them around.

won't turn around but that's all right we'll we got it we got it we will win this battle i can assure you it has to be won first perhaps we won for the country we've got many big things to do and we're not going to let this it's not only your career and your what what's going to happen uh in history as far as you're concerned it's just forgetting this office well i'm obviously i'm concerned about you but you can't you can't have this off the same as

Because you don't destroy the integrity of that office.

Forget Mitchell, it's the office.

And people are not going to stand for the head of the top law enforcement man having plotting or even listening to a plot of an illegal act.

And they won't do it.

The other thing on the Russian deal is something that I only caution you on.

It's on a hammer deal.

Hammer over there, actually.

When I went over there... Let me just say about him, we had nothing to do with him, John, but he talks all the time.

That's right.

And he's very close to the Russians.

And I don't know... All I can tell you is that we tried to keep him the hell out of here.

You know what I mean?

So that he can't use his info.

Well, let me tell you what he did.

I'm telling you, I might ask me to ask you what I might ask you.

He went to the toilet, Jeff, on this...

He made $400 million in foreign trade.

Yeah, yeah.

Has he?

What?

We hadn't even told you yet.

And he, in fact, told them that you were totally familiar with us.

And he worded it very sharply as to whether you said that you were totally poor, but you were favorably disposed.

Now, he also told them that he had Conley as his lawyer.

And they calmly would make sure that he got the deal.

Now, this deal is $400 million of what the Russians put up 10%, which reduces it to $360 million, of which they're expecting extreme credit of $180 million.

Before the Soviets will go ahead with this deal, they want a letter from either Dent or Schultz in which it indicates that the government is favorably disposed toward this, which means that you're going to have to make a commitment for one company of $180 million in credit.

Now, basically, there's nothing wrong with that if it's good faith.

The only thing that I would hate to see happen is that Hamler, by using your name, he talks so goddamn much that he's a dangerous man for his influence.

I get your point.

I'm not saying don't go ahead with it.

I'm just saying be careful.

Same to us.

He throws your name all over.

He apparently had one meeting with you.

One meeting?

Well, that one meeting... A year ago.

Show me his...

He's a nut.

Well, not a nut, but he's a little screwy, you know.

He's got all these collections of things, isn't he?

And, uh...

I got his number.

But he's a promoter.

First class.

Boy, she laughs.

And the Russians, because of what he did in the past, he's got the answer.

But he cannot pull this back with you unless he gets support here.

He's trying, and they know that.

The Russians know it.

And what he's trying to convince them of, because of the one meeting that he does have.

And now he's got, he went over the first time with Kennedy's son, the one who ran as vice president.

Shriver.

Shriver was his lawyer the first time.

And he goes back now, he's his son's lawyer.

Thanks for us here now.

I don't thank God either, but not full time.

You can't do full time.

I think it's a good idea.

Yeah, do that.

Do that.

Yes, sir.

Yes.

The kids, they've got everything.

Thank you.

Nixon, Kendall & Arantes do Nascimento on Watergate and PepsiCo

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 8, 1973

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