Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 948 › Conversation 948-020

Nixon & Woods on Watergate and Ervin Committee

Wednesday, July 11, 1973 · 5:42 PM–6:04 PM ET · Oval Office · 26 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Woods, Rose MaryConversation948-020 on Tape 948StartWednesday, July 11, 1973 at 5:42 PMEndWednesday, July 11, 1973 at 6:04 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 948-020 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Rose Mary Woods discussed the ongoing fallout from the Watergate scandal, specifically focusing on the recent Ervin Committee hearings and the testimony of John N. Mitchell. They reviewed the aggressive questioning tactics employed by Senator Lowell Weicker and compared them to the treatment of John Dean, while also discussing the President's public support and his reception during a recent trip to Kansas City. Woods reassured the President by sharing reports of positive correspondence and telephone calls from supporters, reinforcing a narrative of loyalty and resilience amidst the political pressure.

Audio

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NARA Description

On July 11, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:42 pm to 6:04 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 948-020 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 948-20

Date: July 11, 1973
Time: 5:42 pm - 6:04 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Rose Mary Woods.

      Watergate
            -Woods’s friend
                   -Telephone calls, letters
                   -Possible trip to DC
                          -Timing
            -Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
            -Ervin Committee hearings
                   -John N. Mitchell’s testimony
                          -Dr. William M. Lukash
                          -Weicker’s questioning
                                   -Mitchell’s response
                                          -Goal
                                          -Logs, telephone conversations, meeting
                                           participants
                          -President’s knowledge
                                   -John W. Dean, III, H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
            -Weicker
            -Dean
                   -March 21, 1973 conversation with President
                          -Camp David
                   -Immunity
            -Ervin Committee hearings
                   -Mitchell’s testimony
                          -Weicker’s questioning
                                   -President’s knowledge
                          -Mitchell’s attorney
                                   -Demeanor
                                          -49-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                         Conversation No. 948-20 (cont’d)

                  -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
                         -Bryce N. Harlow
                         -President’s campaign support
            -Weicker
Show the rest of the log (71 more lines)
                  -President’s campaign support
                         -Connecticut
                         -$65,000
            -Dean
                  -Handling of funds
                         -Wylie T. Buchanan, Jr.’s telephone call
                                 -$4850
                                 -Telephone call to New York Times [?]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Privacy]
[Duration: 32 s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

      Watergate
            -Ervin Committee hearings
                   -Mitchell’s testimony
                           -Weicker’s handling compared to Dean’s treatment
                                   -Duration, breaks
            -President’s March 22, 1973 meeting with Dean, Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman,
             and Mitchell
            -Dean
                   -Information to President
                   -Woods’s opinion
            -Support for President
                   -J. Willard (“Bill”) Marriot’s note
                                             -50-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                           Conversation No. 948-20 (cont’d)

                     -Telephone calls and letters
              -President’s reception in Kansas City
                     -Helen A. Thomas’s article
                     -Weather
                     -Cheering

       Thomas
            -Access
                   -Woods’s refusal to interview
                   -President’s acknowledgement
                          -Mitchell [?]
            -Conduct

       Watergate
             -Support for President
                    -Ohio Republican State Committee chairwoman’s telephone call to Woods
                    -Telephone calls, letters
             -Ervin Committee hearings
                    -Herbert W. Kalmbach’s forthcoming testimony
                            -William O. Bittman
                            -Contact with President
                    -Questioning
                            -Baker, Weicker
                    -Mitchell’s testimony
                            -President’s knowledge
                    -Dean
                    -Mitchell’s testimony
                    -Dean
             -Dean

The President and Woods left at 6:04 pm.
                                             -51-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 1 minute of this recording (about 2% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I was wondering if we were able to generate anything for you guys.
Oh, well, I've talked to a couple of people.
I think you'll get some calls.
Good.
And some letters.
And our friend said if he can get free, he might even come into town.
It's almost too late.
Pardon?
It's almost too late to do something.
I didn't do it at all.
He's gotten, you know, no matter how much critical stuff is done, he's gotten it.
He's ready now to do something.
And of course, white people are worse.
Oh, they are.
Yeah, he's another guy.
He was going to push your finger right through it.
He just stopped you.
Oh.
But nevertheless, let me say this.
Oh, my God.
Anyone who, yeah, Dr. Ludwig stopped in and said, you know what, this is amazing.
It did believe and cry.
And the white people just pushed and pushed and pushed.
And the only thing, John said as they closed the hearing off, you know, until 10 in the morning, it was the last.
And he just obviously took his attorney.
Quite a trial that took on us here.
trying every which way to make him say that a phone call or this or that or some way that he must have, he had to have told him.
He must have asked him, he asked the question.
He asked the question every which way and John always answers it.
There was no problem for me to answer it.
I am not lying, you know.
A worker had logs and he was reading telephone conversations.
I mean, times of telephone conversations.
And, um, people would say, now you need to tell me that you were in the day after and he didn't say to you, what did you have to do with it, what did you do?
And John would just say, no, he didn't have anything to do with it.
After all, he had said
In the first place, the President of the United States was too busy running his own investigation.
He turned it over to the authorities, to the proper authorities, the police, or something like that.
He wouldn't have discussed it with us.
Why would he interrogate, you know, something?
He would not interrogate us.
Because then what he did, well, being tested like this, probably, you know, so then again, he had to say, he had to say, probably, probably.
Probably not.
Well, probably that Mitchell was involved, and probably that all of us.
But being testified, he said to you what he told you on that 21st or something.
I don't remember his exact words.
I was the man of wiser at the time.
I could have coaxed him.
So, uh, and he's this big fat, you know, he's repulsive to me.
It's that soft fact.
And he's waving his arms around, and he's being so, so righteous, you know.
Yeah, that's why he first, uh, he just did, you know, uh... Yeah, I know.
He dragged it around a lot, but he never nailed it.
That's what I mean.
He just, uh... Well, that's, that's...
But he had to, like, say, let's get, let's get everybody down from one side, and by the way, I'll get this for you.
That's what I do.
He can't even write it.
That's why he immediately started getting it done.
Trying to clear yourself, but it's not clear.
Just get in there and tell everybody else to get in there.
But I must say, John tried.
I had the opportunity to try and find him.
I did.
It's probably great to sit down and wait in front of him.
Or you might need a friend to help you.
He's proud of you.
He's proud of you.
trying to force him to admit that the president had to have asked him, either in the office or on this phone call and that phone call, or this phone call and that phone call.
And I like John's attorney.
He's a very calm man, and he's a good...
It looks to me like he's good with John.
With John.
A friend did say that, a friend did say that, the one who, he said that, the one who, the one from, the one from Air Force, Air Force used to talk with, used to talk with Baker's friends, Baker's friends, because he's talking to them several, because he's talking to them several times about his future and thus that matter, about his future and thus that matter.
But I said, well, he's got such a big hand out there.
I said, well, he's got such a big hand out there.
He always does.
He always does.
He always does.
He always does.
He always does.
He always does.
Well, there's no fucking thing to drag into a fucking litigant.
Well, there's no fucking thing to drag into a fucking litigant.
Well, there's no fucking thing to drag into a fucking litigant.
Well, there's no fucking thing to drag into a fucking litigant.
Well, you helped today during the campaign.
You're probably not allowed to be here.
Well, I wanted to thank you for the price you were going to pay.
And why did you do it?
Because I was connected.
I gave $5,000 in cash to one of our funds.
I just thought it was great to hear that you know someone.
Why did you do it?
She's got a way of reaching out to everybody.
Thank you all for your day.
Take care.
Well, the way you helped today during the campaign is you're crying my love.
And why are you here?
Because I was connecting with my kids and provided a thousand cash for one of our months out of here.
She knows.
Why are you here?
Thank you all for your day.
I think he said that Mark Dean never did have enough money in his account ever.
Which was covered.
I think he said that Mark Dean never, by 48, never did have the $60 money in his account ever.
Which was covered.
And he called us by 48, by 48, and said, you know, yeah.
You see, but like he said, he said,
And I took him out and you do a story on him and come out.
He called up, uh, come on in bed, let's check in to this funny bit, you know, you know.
Losing time, you know, yeah, I was just like, you people, let me sit, just sit.
Well, I took him out and you do a story on him and come out and call it a new bed, let's check in to this funny bit, you know, you know.
I've seen something like that before.
I don't see it.
I don't hear it.
I don't see it.
I don't see it.
Wait, what?
I'd like to bother John.
Let's see, look, I went from 10.30 to 12.
And there's... So-and-so's like, Dean has time off, so at least he may take, you know, now if you want a break or anything, we'll call 10.30 at the same time if you want one later.
They didn't say that to John.
They said here.
He said there from 10 to 1230 solidly.
Then from 2 until 5.
Wait, why can't we do this?
Why can't we do this?
Why can't we bother John?
We got it.
We got it.
We got it.
We got it.
We got it.
We got it.
Let's see, the poor guy.
10.30 to 12.30.
And those so-and-so's like, Dean, have time off.
It's all we talked about.
He didn't throw a line.
He didn't throw a line.
He didn't throw a line.
He didn't throw a line.
He didn't throw a line.
What the hell is that?
He said they're from 10 to 1230 solidly.
He's been evil from 2 until 5.
Surprise.
it's all we talked about
He didn't outright charge her.
He didn't run a promise.
He didn't promise.
On the 20th Version, he didn't say to her, I'm going to say to her, I'm going to say to her, I'm going to say to her, I'm going to say to her, I'm going to say to her,
Everybody thinks he's even more harmless than all of them.
He's an evil, such an evil man.
I don't believe you.
He's an evil man.
I don't believe you.
I'm going to have dinner with some friends here tonight who are, I've got an observation from Bill Marion.
There it is.
So much back of you.
I get called all the time.
They're all good calls.
And they ask, they're just so, you know, they just say...
There's so much back of you.
I get called all the time, and they're all good calls.
The best thing we can do, somebody's got to take care of this area because we don't have anybody.
And they act, they're just so, you know, they just say, they think that it's time.
A lot of them, you see, a lot of them are those, that's too old in the country, they're worried about being committed.
How the hell does he stand in four months in this company and so forth.
And it's true, it's not easy.
But, you know, I noticed that in Kansas City and other places,
You know, to show you the bias on the press report, to show you the bias on the press report on the press report on the press report on the press report on the press report on the press report
Well, it was on television.
People could hear the cheering.
I saw it on television.
What do you think of that?
It was fantastic.
I thought that in the middle of the day, I don't know if you could read the comments, but they were cheering and clapping.
What the hell was it?
Oh, well, she's not that bad.
But, you know, that sort of thing gets to the public consciousness, but we haven't all the time.
Well, but he was on television.
He could hear the cheering.
I saw it on television.
And I hear people... And I hear people...
I would be sure...
I would be sure to never see her.
I would never see her.
I'd never have.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I'd never see her.
I have always been an opposite side of it.
I will not give anyone an answer.
If I do anything ever again, it will be lies.
No.
She is always up, you know, just not pushing me.
She is always sleeping with me, and I'm a victim.
I'm just there, and I'm here, and I'm really just not going to speak to her.
I've never had a speech or answered her.
I'm not going to speak to her again.
I have not.
I don't hate her, but I have not allowed that sort of comment.
But I was going to say, people worry about it out there.
I know.
Yeah, well, exactly.
I had never spoken to her since I came to the city, because I keep reaching out to her all the way here.
I have to try.
Well, and like today is, you know.
And they're worried, you know.
Well, they're worried.
And you know what?
You know, it is.
It's good to know that they have said that I will not give anyone an interview.
I won't give anyone an interview.
And you look good.
Now today, a woman called me from the Ohio Republican community.
I've never talked to her before.
And she looked at their party time and so forth.
said that she and the new chairman had been talking for a few months.
And when they went by, she told us, you know, they were proud of me, you know what I'm saying.
She said, well, so we wanted to call to say, we just want you to please tell the president that we're all just as much behind him as we ever were.
We're praying for him.
We know everything.
We have no doubt at all.
I never speak to her.
I never, I never, I never speak to her again.
I pray that God will give us that deliverance of these idiots.
I am not, I don't hate you, but I will not allow that sort of conduct.
But I was going to say, people worry about it out there in the Kansas City.
People say keep your chin up and hurt all the way there.
Well, and like today is... And they're worried, you know.
Well, they're worried.
And you know what?
You know, it is.
They have seen pictures of you, and you look good.
Now today, a woman called me from the Ohio Republican community.
I've never talked to her before, and she worked there part of the time and so forth.
Said that she and the new chairman have been talking a lot.
And one they wanted to say, they were proud of me, you know, and she said, well, so we wanted to call to say, we just want you to please tell the president that we're all just as much behind him as we ever were.
We're praying for him.
We know everything's going to turn out all right.
We have no doubt at all.
And we just pray that God will give him the strength to listen to these idiots.
And it was very nice.
That's the tenor of the call.
And it was another...
I never saw a combine.
I know that he saw it.
I never saw it.
Some of them will be right behind me.
Some of them, eh.
Uh, sharp question.
That's a fair question.
I mean...
I never saw a combat.
Some of them will be right behind me.
Some of them ask sharp questions, but fair questions.
I mean, they ask the fairly, and they ask...
They didn't do like Baker and Dean.
Wait a minute.
They didn't do like Baker and Dean.
Wait a minute.
They didn't do like Baker and Dean.
Wait a minute.
They didn't do like Baker and Dean.
Wait a minute.
I understand he wasn't there anyway.
Except that he said something about...
He said something about...
I hate to want to use the expression, and I wasn't in the room.
Everyone was in bed.
Let's see, sometimes...
I came out to talk to someone, so I didn't see as much of him, but I don't believe he was in bed.
I understand he wasn't angry, except that he said something about, he said something about, I hate to use the expression, and I wasn't in a room myself, a cat.
So if you didn't have the curiosity of a cat, a cat,
I was going, you know, to ask you something or something like this.
And then you didn't mention something about a cat.
You have to hear it in my mind.
And, uh, John, John, he was just grinning back at me and said, it's not a cat.
Well, the president didn't ask me, and I hope he doesn't anymore, you know, to ask you something or something like this.
But, he was really, I tell you, I was so depressed because I was so, and then he mentioned some words.
I didn't know.
I was really afraid, because I was afraid that John would break.
I'm about to catch the nine live.
John, that's just a great thing.
And I got him and said, did not go to the whole point.
Well, it was mixed, but the president didn't ask, but he felt again that it was a P&I board that you'd be elected, and then that the children
So are your parents, hoping they'll be more alive.
I'm scared.
I'm scared.
I'm scared.
I'm scared.
I'm scared.
I'm scared.
Yeah, but... Yeah, that's it.
I would... You know, Paul, I mean... Really, Craig... Because I was... How lucky he is to not get off.
He won't get off.
I didn't tell you, Craig.
He's the hero of the...
I don't... Yeah, you may.
I don't...
He does.
He's got to live with this the rest of the night.
Yeah, he gets off.
I hate being in the dark.
I think there's a lot of other people who did not go to bed last night.
Well, the picture was nice.
But he felt, again, that it was important that you be elected.
And then that's the, to destroy your character.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's it.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Good night.

Also recorded on July 11, 1973

  • 948-014 4:24 PM · 60 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:24 pm to 5:05 pm.
  • 041-062 5:06 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:06 pm and 7:07 pm.
  • 948-015 5:06 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 5:06 pm.
  • 948-016 5:07 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:07 pm to 5:13 pm.
  • 948-017 5:13 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:13 pm and 5:16 pm.
  • 948-018 5:16 PM · 28 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:16 pm to 5:41 pm.
  • 948-019 5:41 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:41 pm and 5:42 pm.
  • 948-021 6:04 PM · 12 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 6:04 pm on July 11, 1973 and 2:15 pm on July 12, 1973.

All 32 conversations from July 11, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 948-020, July 11, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/948-020 (accessed November 4, 2026).