On April 8, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 10:06 pm to 10:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 001-053 of the White House Tapes.
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Yeah.
We have Dr. Kissinger.
On the line, sir.
Hello, Henry.
Mr. President.
Are you out to dinner someplace?
I was.
I had dinner with the board of directors of the Rand Corporation.
Oh, nice.
And I just a little held with them.
Oh, fine.
Did you?
Yeah.
Well, that's good.
It probably shook them up a little, didn't it?
Well, they had some people, you know, they had some bankers and Bill Hewitt, Packard's partner.
Oh, yeah.
And so...
And Webster from the New England Electric, head of New England Electric.
So I talked mostly about Vietnam.
And they were generally positive.
Yeah.
I've got to tell you, we had this Illinois group tonight.
Boy, they were about 40 business guys.
And it's not like Percy was there, as you know.
It ought to be.
Oh, yeah.
They were almost to a man had seen this and were really quite moved by the broadcast.
They were... Well, that was the reaction of my group, too, tonight.
They were... And so it shows we had... And in my little talk, I proceeded to talk a little about SST and say, I understand why some opposed it, but I said, let's not let this be a pattern of turning away from exploring the unknown, turning inward, not meeting our responsibilities in the world, and so forth and so on.
I just thought I just couldn't let Percy sit there without... No, I think that was important.
Yeah.
Another interesting little thing.
Mrs. Eisenhower called tonight.
She said that the... She was, of course, like... She told Julie that they had Mrs. Taylor and little Kevin on one of the new shows tonight.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
Did you know that?
I didn't, but somebody at the dinner told me.
Uh-huh.
And that she mentioned that I had called her.
Yeah?
Yeah.
and how honored she had been by U.S. speech.
That's what they told me.
Yeah, well, that's, of course, the best kind of a follow-up we could have on it, better than having some senator or congressman praising it, is to put that thing on and remind the people again of the, you know, the thing that they remember about it, you know.
Exactly.
And...
Well, I heard Eric Severide tonight at the tag end of the news.
And he said, well, the president squarely put it up to Congress.
If they want to assume responsibility, they can have it.
But he didn't think there would be many takers.
He didn't or I didn't?
No, Severide didn't think there'd be many takers in Congress.
Now, it shows the tremendous power of the presidency if it is used with courage and wisdom.
Yeah, and sometimes, particularly with the medium of television, where you can go directly to the people, not through the press, just whack it right out there.
It'll give this press a little pause.
That's right.
So far, I think the treatment has been enormously respectful.
Yeah.
Well, they'll hack away now about the...
the time, and do we have a date in mind, and all that sort of thing.
I think we shouldn't answer that, Mr. President.
I told Ziegler today that he should just, in the future, not say, look, the president is not going to, he stated his position, I'm not going to go beyond it, gentlemen.
Exactly.
If any congressman or senator thinks that we've got a date in mind, fine.
But we're not going to say, because the point is, we may have a date in mind, but I'm keeping the option open of changing my mind in November.
That's the point, see, and that's what we keep the enemy.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But I wouldn't, because if you say too much, or if we say too much about the date, the next thing is we're abandoning the prisoners.
That's going to drive the wife right up a wall.
Oh, hell yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But I think it is now very well positioned.
We just keep right where we are.
Exactly.
Don't move and don't...
I'm going to tell Ron in the morning not to take any more questions on it and just say that we've covered the situation and that we've stated a position and we're not going to talk any more about it.
We've made an announcement that runs until December 1st, and at that time the president will have another announcement.
But he'll make it at that time, depending upon the circumstances then.
And let him, well, will it be at this rate?
It'll depend on the circumstances then.
Well, do we have a date in mind?
That'll depend on the circumstances then.
And that's the way to play it, play a little.
Well, I think, and all we have found that whatever we give, the doves will just go on to another position.
Isn't that the truth?
Every time, don't they?
It didn't really make any difference.
We could have gone to 90,000.
It wouldn't have made any difference much.
It wouldn't have made any difference.
As it turns out.
Or we could have put 100,000 in January at the same time.
Oh, it was a little better to have it.
It showed progress.
It showed progress, Mr. President, but if we had gone up to 16,000, they still would have found fault with it.
Oh, sure.
It wouldn't have helped us a bit.
It wouldn't have meant a bit, not a bit.
And that's just not going to be the way it's going to play out.
I must say, we've, some way or other, you've got to get layered in.
Pipe down a little bit, too, about it.
I've scheduled a lunch with him next week.
I'm going to get Laird quieted up.
Just say, now, look, Mel, it isn't going to do any good.
And just say, I'd say, look, there is a chance for negotiation here.
Now, let's don't spoil it now.
Yeah.
The only trouble is if he believes it, he'll try to hog it.
But I'll get him quieted down by other methods.
I'm just going to tell him he'll get himself into such unbelievable trouble.
Yeah.
Because I think he's taken up a bit.
Do you?
Yeah.
Mel is basically not a bad fellow.
He should also pipe down on the Kelly thing.
We got that in the right position.
We're not defending Kelly, and we're going to let it run its course.
And if he turns out the way we expect it to, he'll...
We'll just handle it that way, but let it drag on a while.
I think that's right, and I think the traditional process should now take its normal course there.
That's right.
And after that, you can decide in the light of all the information that will then have been developed.
That's right.
So, and that public furor had to be quieted down.
That's right.
Every time, don't they?
We...
You know, it didn't really make any difference so that we could have gone to 90,000.
It wouldn't have made any difference much.
It wouldn't have made any difference.
As it turns out, or we could have put it 100,000 in January at the same... Oh, it was a little better to have it how it was.
Well, it showed progress.
It showed progress, Mr. President, but if we had gone up to 16,000, they still would have found fault with it.
Oh, sure.
It wouldn't have helped us a bit.
It wouldn't have meant a bit, not a bit.
And that's just not going to be the way it's
being quiet on a planet we uh i must say we've uh somewhere or other you've got to get layered in so to pipe down a little bit too about right i i've scheduled a lunch with him next week i'm going to get lit quiet it up just just say no look look mel it isn't going to do any good and just say you might say look there is a chance for negotiation here now let's don't spoil it now yeah the only trouble is if he believes that he'll try to hog it
But I'll get him quieted down by other methods.
I'm just going to tell him he'll get himself into such unbelievable trouble.
Yeah.
Because I think he's taken up a bit.
Do you?
Yeah.
Mel is basically not a bad fellow.
He should also pipe down on the Cali thing.
We got that in the right position.
We're not defending Cali, and we're going to let it run its course.
And if he turns out the way we expect him to, he'll...
We'll just handle it that way, but let it drag on a while.
I think that's right, and I think the traditional process should now take its normal course there.
That's right.
And after that, you can decide in the light of all the information that will then have been developed.
That's right.
So, and that public bureau had to be quieted down.
That's right.
Before it got complete.
It was such an amazing...
sort of a public furor, surprised us all, surprised the press and all the rest.
But it was probably a good thing that the country had that little spasm.
That's right.
Get them a chance to pop off steam.
And then we came on and cooled it off a little and came on with an announcement.
We gained a little initiative, I think, as a result of it, don't you think?
Oh, yes.
And no matter what they say now, no one can construe that outburst as a dove outburst, even if it took the form, perhaps, of wanting to get out of the war.
It was the frustration of the people who are not permitted to win the war.
That's right.
And that's quite a different thing.
Exactly.
And I think the liberals really know this.
Deep down, the liberals know this.
They are shocked by it, because they were sort of hoping that the whole nation would, you know, sort of say, well, now we'll punish these.
That's right.
What they wanted was a feeling of revulsion against the deed, in fact.
The deed itself didn't bother anybody.
No.
Matter of fact, the people said, sure, he was guilty, but by God, why not?
Exactly.
Well, anyway, we'll let her ride for a while.
Well, Mr. President, I think you've done it again.
Well, now the main thing is to try to hold our horses, see if the congressmen and senators come back from Easter vacation a little quieter.
They may be.
I think they will be.
They might be.
We'll see.
Okay, Henry, thank you.
Right.
Good night, Mr. President.