Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 1 › Conversation 001-078

Nixon phone call with Colson on Henry Kissinger and John Scali

Tuesday, April 13, 1971 · 11:14 AM–11:17 AM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation001-078 on Tape 1 (tape position 02:31:52–02:35:00)StartTuesday, April 13, 1971 at 11:14 AMEndTuesday, April 13, 1971 at 11:17 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 001-078 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon consults with Charles Colson regarding an upcoming meeting with Henry Kissinger and John Scali, ultimately deciding to speak with them privately to manage potential professional rivalries. Colson updates the President on the progress of Harris polling, noting that the White House has provided comparative data from the Opinion Research Corporation to ensure accuracy. Additionally, they discuss strategies to improve relations with POW wives, determining that Don Hughes should assist Kissinger in future meetings to provide a softer, more effective approach.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Yes, sir, Mr. President.
I'm meeting with Scali and Kissinger in a couple of minutes.
Do you want to come down?
Are you free or what are you doing?
Fine, I'll come right over.
Wait a minute, where are you now?
I'm in my office just meeting with somebody.
No, sir, just cleaning up some paperwork.
Fine, fine, fine.
Okay.
Okay.
Or do you want me to see him alone?
Well, I suggested Kissinger come in.
I don't think it matters whether I'm there, but I think it's important that... Well, Kissinger, I'm going to lay right into it.
I only thought that...
Well, maybe not.
Maybe you might pass it this time.
You had long talks with him before.
Oh, I've been working with John.
I had John in here...
He's in good shape.
...almost all day yesterday, sort of getting him adjusted to the system, and I will be working closely with him.
I felt on this meeting, Mr. President, and I expressed myself this morning that the great value that...
would be for you to get these two fellows sort of tracking together, because there'll be a normal tendency for a little rivalry there.
I know, I know.
I'll talk to them alone.
I'll talk to them alone.
I think there's value in that.
Yeah, I'll do that.
Fine, fine.
Anything else from your shop?
I might just report to you, Mr. President, that Harris did start the polling when he said he would.
He started last Thursday.
Still polling.
His people are through in the field tonight, and their data starts flowing back in.
We'll have a
feel on the Harris figures this weekend.
But you gave him ours, did you?
Gave him yours.
I gave him the ORC figures, which he said he felt the trend would be up.
He wasn't surprised by the ORC figures.
That's good.
And we'll see how he comes out.
He's...
But you told him, so he knows we're watching.
Oh, yes.
Well, after all, RORC was published, too.
That's right.
Keeps him a little bit honest.
He had seen that, and then we discussed it in detail.
He told me that he would call me over the weekend with his raw data and review it with me.
And what he will do is put...
that in the mail next tuesday for yeah uh the following monday's news stories so we get the story on that one would come out two weeks from yesterday and i think it'll be good if it isn't an uptick i think i can talk about it publishing it okay so we'll we'll stay on that i also might report to you because you asked me about it yeah we've got the pow wives coming in and uh good
Don Hughes has been doing a good job with these girls.
I know, I know.
They did have a meeting with Kissinger, and it didn't come off quite as well as they would have liked, so we're going to... What did?
Well, I think they got the feeling that he wasn't... Don can really relate to them, and...
Then maybe you don't want, well, on the other hand... No, I think what I, I think the...
It'd be better.
I think it should be done, but Hughes, I'm arranging to have Hughes and Kissinger sort of do it together, and John is good at the hand-holding, and Henry can... Yeah, he was too blunt with him.
A little bit.
Mm-hmm.
But I'll see that that comes about this week.
Yeah.
Okay, fine.
Good, good.
Thank you, Mr. President.

NARA Description

On April 13, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 11:14 am to 11:17 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 001-078 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 1-78

Date: April 13, 1971
Time: 11:14 pm - 11:17 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 478-6]

     President’s schedule
          -Forthcoming meeting with Henry A. Kissinger and John A. Scali

     Harris poll
          -The President’s speech, April 7, 1971
          -White House poll
          -Opinion Research Corporation [ORC] poll
          -News stories

     Prisoners of war [POW] wives
          -James D. (“Don”) Hughes
          -Meeting with Kissinger
          -Hughes

Also recorded on April 13, 1971

  • 001-076 10:16 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Peter G. Peterson, and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 10:16 am to 10:21 am.
  • 001-077 11:13 AM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone from 11:13 am to 11:14 am.
  • 478-003 11:13 AM · 36 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 11:13 am.
  • 478-004 11:13 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at 11:13 am.
  • 478-005 11:14 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 11:14 am.
  • 478-006 11:14 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:14 am to 11:17 am.
  • 478-007 11:17 AM · 57 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, John A. Scali, White House photographer, Stephen B. Bull, unknown person(s), and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:17 am and 12:18 pm.
  • 478-008 12:18 PM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Carl M. Yastrzemski, and Henry C. Cashen, II met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:18 pm to 12:33 pm.

All 35 conversations from April 13, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 001-078, April 13, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/001-078 (accessed October 23, 2026).