{"conversationCode":"001-078","tapeNumber":1,"conversationNumber":78,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-001-078","startDateTime":"1971-04-13T16:14:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-04-13T16:17:00.000Z","startDate":"13-Apr-1971","startTime":"11:14 AM","endDate":"13-Apr-1971","endTime":"11:17 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On April 13, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 11:14 am to 11:17 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 001-078 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 1-78\n\nDate: April 13, 1971\nTime: 11:14 pm - 11:17 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\fThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation No. 478-6]\n\n     President’s schedule\n          -Forthcoming meeting with Henry A. Kissinger and John A. Scali\n\n     Harris poll\n          -The President’s speech, April 7, 1971\n          -White House poll\n          -Opinion Research Corporation [ORC] poll\n          -News stories\n\n     Prisoners of war [POW] wives\n          -James D. (“Don”) Hughes\n          -Meeting with Kissinger\n          -Hughes","filename":["001-078.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:31:52","tapeEnd":"02:35:00","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"001-077","nextCode":"001-079","transcript":[{"start":0.09,"end":3.63,"text":"Yes, sir, Mr. President."},{"start":3.96,"end":7.8,"text":"I'm meeting with Scali and Kissinger in a couple of minutes."},{"start":7.82,"end":8.5,"text":"Do you want to come down?"},{"start":9.18,"end":10.1,"text":"Are you free or what are you doing?"},{"start":10.12,"end":10.88,"text":"Fine, I'll come right over."},{"start":10.9,"end":11.96,"text":"Wait a minute, where are you now?"},{"start":12.45,"end":14.53,"text":"I'm in my office just meeting with somebody."},{"start":14.63,"end":16.31,"text":"No, sir, just cleaning up some paperwork."},{"start":16.33,"end":17.47,"text":"Fine, fine, fine."},{"start":17.49,"end":17.77,"text":"Okay."},{"start":18.73,"end":19.15,"text":"Okay."},{"start":20.05,"end":22.15,"text":"Or do you want me to see him alone?"},{"start":23.25,"end":25.3,"text":"Well, I suggested Kissinger come in."},{"start":25.32,"end":33.02,"text":"I don't think it matters whether I'm there, but I think it's important that... Well, Kissinger, I'm going to lay right into it."},{"start":33.06,"end":33.7,"text":"I only thought that..."},{"start":35.21,"end":35.83,"text":"Well, maybe not."},{"start":35.87,"end":37.57,"text":"Maybe you might pass it this time."},{"start":37.61,"end":39.31,"text":"You had long talks with him before."},{"start":39.49,"end":40.55,"text":"Oh, I've been working with John."},{"start":40.59,"end":41.49,"text":"I had John in here..."},{"start":41.83,"end":42.59,"text":"He's in good shape."},{"start":42.73,"end":48.74,"text":"...almost all day yesterday, sort of getting him adjusted to the system, and I will be working closely with him."},{"start":48.78,"end":53.98,"text":"I felt on this meeting, Mr. President, and I expressed myself this morning that the great value that..."},{"start":55.09,"end":61.35,"text":"would be for you to get these two fellows sort of tracking together, because there'll be a normal tendency for a little rivalry there."},{"start":61.67,"end":62.58,"text":"I know, I know."},{"start":62.7,"end":63.76,"text":"I'll talk to them alone."},{"start":64.12,"end":64.82,"text":"I'll talk to them alone."},{"start":64.86,"end":65.84,"text":"I think there's value in that."},{"start":65.88,"end":67.06,"text":"Yeah, I'll do that."},{"start":67.08,"end":67.96,"text":"Fine, fine."},{"start":67.98,"end":69.02,"text":"Anything else from your shop?"},{"start":70.04,"end":74.16,"text":"I might just report to you, Mr. President, that Harris did start the polling when he said he would."},{"start":74.18,"end":76.22,"text":"He started last Thursday."},{"start":76.34,"end":76.86,"text":"Still polling."},{"start":77.62,"end":81.72,"text":"His people are through in the field tonight, and their data starts flowing back in."},{"start":81.76,"end":82.18,"text":"We'll have a"},{"start":82.84,"end":84.6,"text":"feel on the Harris figures this weekend."},{"start":84.76,"end":86.06,"text":"But you gave him ours, did you?"},{"start":86.2,"end":86.84,"text":"Gave him yours."},{"start":86.86,"end":94.23,"text":"I gave him the ORC figures, which he said he felt the trend would be up."},{"start":94.35,"end":96.15,"text":"He wasn't surprised by the ORC figures."},{"start":96.17,"end":98.73,"text":"That's good."},{"start":99.11,"end":100.28,"text":"And we'll see how he comes out."},{"start":100.54,"end":100.74,"text":"He's..."},{"start":102.6,"end":105.54,"text":"But you told him, so he knows we're watching."},{"start":106.17,"end":106.44,"text":"Oh, yes."},{"start":106.64,"end":109.05,"text":"Well, after all, RORC was published, too."},{"start":109.11,"end":109.53,"text":"That's right."},{"start":109.69,"end":110.79,"text":"Keeps him a little bit honest."},{"start":110.95,"end":113.91,"text":"He had seen that, and then we discussed it in detail."},{"start":113.93,"end":118.49,"text":"He told me that he would call me over the weekend with his raw data and review it with me."},{"start":118.77,"end":121.07,"text":"And what he will do is put..."},{"start":121.84,"end":145.35,"text":"that in the mail next tuesday for yeah uh the following monday's news stories so we get the story on that one would come out two weeks from yesterday and i think it'll be good if it isn't an uptick i think i can talk about it publishing it okay so we'll we'll stay on that i also might report to you because you asked me about it yeah we've got the pow wives coming in and uh good"},{"start":146.13,"end":148.95,"text":"Don Hughes has been doing a good job with these girls."},{"start":149.25,"end":150.17,"text":"I know, I know."},{"start":150.39,"end":155.42,"text":"They did have a meeting with Kissinger, and it didn't come off quite as well as they would have liked, so we're going to... What did?"},{"start":156,"end":161.6,"text":"Well, I think they got the feeling that he wasn't... Don can really relate to them, and..."},{"start":162.75,"end":167.38,"text":"Then maybe you don't want, well, on the other hand... No, I think what I, I think the..."},{"start":167.46,"end":167.9,"text":"It'd be better."},{"start":168.48,"end":177.45,"text":"I think it should be done, but Hughes, I'm arranging to have Hughes and Kissinger sort of do it together, and John is good at the hand-holding, and Henry can... Yeah, he was too blunt with him."},{"start":177.53,"end":177.97,"text":"A little bit."},{"start":177.99,"end":179.32,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":179.58,"end":182.44,"text":"But I'll see that that comes about this week."},{"start":182.46,"end":182.64,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":182.7,"end":182.96,"text":"Okay, fine."},{"start":183.02,"end":184.28,"text":"Good, good."},{"start":184.38,"end":185.77,"text":"Thank you, Mr. President."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon consults with Charles Colson regarding an upcoming meeting with Henry Kissinger and John Scali, ultimately deciding to speak with them privately to manage potential professional rivalries. Colson updates the President on the progress of Harris polling, noting that the White House has provided comparative data from the Opinion Research Corporation to ensure accuracy. Additionally, they discuss strategies to improve relations with POW wives, determining that Don Hughes should assist Kissinger in future meetings to provide a softer, more effective approach.","topics":["Henry Kissinger","John Scali","Harris Poll","Public Opinion","POW wives","Don Hughes"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T20:58:35.416Z"},"topicSlugs":["henry-kissinger","john-scali","harris-poll","public-opinion","pow-wives","don-hughes"],"audioDurationSec":186,"audioFiles":[{"file":"001-078.mp3","bytes":4468191,"durationSec":186.1,"bitrate":192075,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:20.569Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/001-078.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/001-078","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/1/conversation-001-078","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}