Conversation 001-081

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Yes, sir, Mr. President.

How are your troops doing?

I think we're doing fine, sir.

The, uh...

Good economic news.

The next couple of days are reasonably good, which I think will boost spirits a bit.

You notice the... Well, they should.

Damn right.

My God, the...

Interesting, the market went over a 9.32 today.

9.32 it ended up.

Did you notice?

I didn't see the figure on that.

That's higher than it was when we came in, so we've now reached the breakwater point.

Well, that's marvelous.

9.32 is a pretty good figure. 9.32.

On January 20th, it was 931.

Well, the $28.5 billion GMP increase on Friday is bound to give things a lift, too.

Some lift.

It's not as big as we had projected, but it's much higher than Eckstein projected and higher than any of even the optimists among the souls called experts projected.

That's exactly right.

See, they were all 27, so this is 28.5.

Well, Eckstein was 22.

Yeah, I think it was, was it Eckstein?

Otto Eckstein.

Right, right.

I think he was 22.

He was 22, that's right.

So it's, it's going to be read well in the business indice today going up the... Let it show you a second.

sorry i had somebody at the door that was up to three tenths of one percent i'm not sure what that means one from 164.9 to 165.2 but it's it's an increase all the figures are up it's moving it's moving and the retail sales are up they

automobiles are up, housing is up, you know.

But the main point is, even though it means nothing except the 27 million that own stocks, and that's not an inconsiderable number, Bill, but the fact this market moves, those guys in New York, those bastards do not buy unless they know what the hell's going on.

That's right.

And they anticipate ahead.

That's right.

And they're predicting what's going to happen.

As I understand it, Mr. President,

There's a lot of small investors coming in now, which is a healthy sign.

Well, 19 million shares today.

But there's a lot of small lot trading, which means that you're getting some public confidence back in, which I think is a damn healthy thing.

And if we can keep that up, plus casualties coming down, as you know.

What is the situation with regard to that?

keeping uh i was talking to bob dole today and he said that case and brook were mumbling around about a cutoff and a resolution and all that and he's trying to keep in line the main thing really is that we just got to keep our own i mean i notice uh uh for example uh

Cook has got some resolution floating around about prisoners, which is going to be too bad, but except that it's wrong to do.

They just ought to keep their goddamn mouth shut for two or three months.

Well, they should, but we're not going to be able to control it.

I know that.

As much as we'll try to keep it downplayed, you know, the doves are going to...

Well, they're petrified because they know we're going to end it, you see.

That's right.

And they want a part in it.

Well, they want to take credit for it if it comes out right, but they want to be positioned so they can be critical if it doesn't.

That's right.

I'm afraid, I talked to Kissinger and Haig today, I'm afraid we're going to need to.

Have an alternative?

Well, no.

Develop just a good defense.

I'm not talking about having any alternatives, substantively, but just... Well, we may have a couple of them to break.

Who knows?

Well, if we can just...

This China thing must really disturb the doves, though.

You have sure turned to...

These bastards really must have a problem with this, huh?

You've sure turned to our new man, Mr. Scallion.

Oh, yeah.

My God, he just thinks this is the greatest thing.

Of course, let me say, that doesn't help us with folks.

I think what we've got to realize, well, that helped us the intellectuals.

We pulled all this, you know, and people are against communist China, period.

They're against communist, period.

So this doesn't help us with folks at all.

It's just with these intellectual bastards.

Well, it may help us with some of the opinion makers that they seek your policy unit to probably help with the kids.

You think so?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, maybe.

No, I think it's...

It's kind of an initiative that young people will... You may help a little, I agree.

I see your point.

It doesn't help with middle America.

I'm expecting all kinds of... Yeah, they don't understand it.

They say, what the hell are you doing?

They're killing our boys and you're trading with these people.

See?

Exactly right.

And if I were a demagogue, I'd go after that.

But I doubt if they will.

You remember the Canadian wheat deal four or five years ago?

The absolute hell that broke loose all through the country.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't think it will break loose on this.

No.

No, because, of course, the main point about this is that this is also worrying the Russians.

It's worrying Hanoi.

So it's an enormously important move.

We had to make it for other reasons, but let's have no illusions it's going to help us with the country.

I didn't see it tonight, but I understand Howard K. Smith had an excellent commentary leading in with your foreign affairs article.

finding out that it was not just an accident.

That's right.

That it had been long planned, long thought through process and consistent with your long term views.

As I said, I didn't see it, but I heard it was excellent.

But no, I think that process will confuse them and this will keep them a little off.

What they're really worried about, Chuck, is that they're afraid that on this war,

I now really see what it is.

They really are afraid we're going to pull it off.

And they have got to be in a position of criticizing or saying, well, we wanted to do it sooner or something.

Because otherwise, the issue is so clear.

They got us into the war, and we got us out.

See?

Exactly.

Exactly the issue.

Now, they're trying hard to stir it up, Bill.

they'll do their best during this demonstration period to uh but i hope they all endorse the demonstration oh they have oh right down the line is it humphrey endorsement absolutely well i shouldn't say that too quickly muskie teddy um i don't know sir i did look at the list and

I don't remember Teddy's name a lot.

Let's be sure that you get after both Teddy and...

I'll bring you some matches, please.

Let's be sure both Teddy and Humphrey are put on the spot.

Get them to have telephone calls made to their office.

Get them on the record.

Say, now look, Senator Humphrey has spoken... Muskie has spoken up.

Senator McGovern, what's the matter with you, you know?

Now get somebody to go.

I mean, let's get that done tomorrow, right?

Yes, sir.

We have some pretty good tricks in our bag that we've been working on this week on the demonstrations.

You know, the hardhats are going to be here at the same time.

I hope they realize how important this is.

We kind of thought we'd pass some blue foots around when they're here about to join the demonstration and end the war and have some long-haired kids.

Well, the other thing you can do is to attack the hardhats.

That's it.

Yeah, see what I mean?

Yeah.

Why not have something that throws off on them?

I mean, the hard hats are not, with an ugly, ugly picture in pamphlets, the hard hats are not America, and then we are, you know, or something like that.

You see a little of that?

That's the other twist.

You see, that's a good one.

That's excellent.

I was thinking of trying to get them to join the demonstration if they come down and watch that guerrilla theater that this group is bringing out next week.

They'll go in and clean them up.

Where is the Gorilla Theater going to be?

Lafayette Park.

They're going to have it one day, I think.

I just went through that this afternoon.

We're kind of gearing our people up for a few activities.

Now, at the present time, Chuck,

Try to see.

I don't know.

I don't know if McGregor and Ballou's still with us.

Oh, yes, yes, sir.

Well, McGregor and Ballou and the rest, they've got to see that our own people don't get off going, you know, Brooke shouldn't be in this.

He should stay out of it for a couple of months, you know.

He'll have plenty of time to squeal when he wants to.

But, you know, he's moving at the wrong time.

And he's moving against the tide now, because the tide is running our way.

We've got a lot of things going.

Don't you agree?

Yes, sir.

Definitely.

And if only that... Is there anything you can do to get some of them to...

Well, I don't know.

I have a meeting early in the week, Mr. President, with some of the more liberal Republicans to talk to them about helping us against McCloskey, and I can raise the same issue with them.

Clark can do that.

Clark's pretty good with it.

Be very aggressive with it.

Very aggressive.

Just say, look...

We've got a plan.

It's working.

It's going to win.

And you're going to look awful bad if you're opposing it.

See?

Yes, sir.

That's the line we should take.

Well, I think that we can keep a lot of these fellows in mind.

Saxby, for example, he's been speaking out pretty well with it.

Yeah.

As you also know, our last poll shows 55, so we're doing pretty well there.

We'll get that out as soon as we find out the top gave you the point of it, you know.

Well, we're not going to have ORC print that, but put that out, because it's only one point above what we had before, but it's still significant, because it does show that we have some, I mean, for us to be at 55 after all these damn attacks, or say 50 to 55, which is what we're in,

is pretty damn effective, don't you think so?

Well, it sure is.

And I think we've got to get this to these damn senators.

I don't know that they... See, they hear the radical male, and they weigh their male.

How can we get this to them?

Can they... Or can you?

I don't know.

Well, they get a feel for it, Mr. President.

I think when they come back, a lot of them, particularly from the Midwest and the Far West, are going to have a little different view.

I think that...

that after they've been out talking to people, because I... Well, we don't know, but we don't know what they're hearing, though, you see, because they may not have caught it as we have, you see.

We're getting a real feel.

Well, we're going to mail the poll, at least the part of the poll that relates to your approval of your handling of the war, which has dramatically shifted.

Yeah.

We're going to get that up to all the senators and congressmen so they'll have it in their offices when they come in on Monday.

Well, and get to the Senators tomorrow because you see they're there now.

Well, you can't.

You can't break the release date.

That's right.

But we'll have it to them this weekend.

We'll get it.

All right.

Good.

But just tell them there's a hell of a lot more going on than they realize and don't get out there and get the limbs sawed off.

I don't know what's the matter with these people.

Now, Brooke, for example, maybe you could talk to him and say, Now, Ed, for God's sakes, why don't you give us a month?

Tell him 30 days.

Why not?

You might listen to that.

If I could tell him that, and he thought that we... Tell him 30 days, and then we'll tell him.

All right?

I won't ask him for any more than that, but say, now, if you give us 30 days, maybe we've got something to tell you about.

But there's some things going on that we can't tell you about.

And it isn't no secret.

There's nothing yet, but we've just got to hear from a few people.

See?

On everything.

Everything is breaking now.

They're carrying the thing.

Who the hell thought this was going to break?

That's right.

We knew.

Right?

That's right.

Well, I think if I asked Ed Brook to give us 30 days, he would do it.

I don't think there's any doubt.

You ask him, tell him May 15th.

And then May 15th, you tell him he can come in and have an appointment with me May 15th.

And I'll tell him what the hell the score is.

But I think between that and then, if he could just say, look, the president is...

sincerely trying to end this war.

He's doing it.

And we're not going to flyspeck him.

We're not going to pull a rug out from under him.

But he should say that.

He made a speech today.

I don't know what it was.

But just say, now, Ed, I just want you to know, the president's all he asks.

He just, and you give him that date, May 15th.

You're going to talk to him with the president that day, and he'll tell you that time you can go out and he can scream like a dove.

I don't care.

Because, you know, one thing that'll do, Mr. President, in the case of someone like Ed Brook, whom

whose colleagues respect them, a lot of them do.

If he starts getting quiet and says, I can't tell you why, but I'm quiet, that's a very infectious thing.

Other people say, well, Jesus, he must know something we don't know.

It does have that effect.

I'll do that with Ed in the morning.

I think I've known him long enough that I think if I said that to him, it would... Now, don't...

Don't promise anything.

Don't say there's anything secret that's going to go on.

Don't say anything.

Just say, Ed, they've just finished the Soviet Party Congress.

You notice what happened in China.

We can't promise a thing.

We're not going to try to mislead you.

But take 30 days.

The president wants you to just take 30 days with no promises, no commitments, nothing.

Nothing may happen.

And you come in and talk to him.

At that time, he'll tell you what the cold facts are, and you can do what you want.

Mm-hmm.

Can't you say that?

Yes, sir.

Okay, and tell him he can't tell Fulbright, he can't tell Case, he can't tell anybody else.

Good.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

All dead.

Thank you.

Bye.