Conversation 002-030

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.

Excuse me, Mr. President.

How are you, sir?

Well, what's the news on your front today?

Well, we had a little bit of activity with the demonstrations that was helpful, I think.

You think it was helpful, huh?

Well, the network news tonight, I only saw ABC and CBS, but they both carried our good friend Chief Rainwater for about a minute.

What did he say?

Well, he said that these weren't really veterans unless some of the girls that were with them had been in the service components of the

Really?

And he hit them pretty hard.

He said they'd been infiltrated by radicals.

Then they had some reporters who, at least on ABC, did a little survey of the veterans and found that many of them were not veterans.

They reported that?

Yes, sir.

Well, good.

We finally got that across.

Finally got that one out, at least.

And that came over the wires today also.

Then our loyalists up in the Senate did a...

Hell of a good job for us.

They were on the wires all afternoon with Hanson, Bob Taft.

Bob Taft was marvelous.

I heard he made a great talk about the doves.

What did he call them?

The new doves that are being hatched every day.

Yeah, the new hatched doves, yeah.

Well, we set that up yesterday to get seven or eight of them speaking, and I think all seven... Did they get on the wires, some of them?

Oh, yes.

Gosh, there were two pages...

butter-sized pages of AQP wire.

And AP, I understand, had a good one.

I didn't see it.

But they got some good publicity.

They put them out.

They're beginning to learn the technique.

They got them all out last night.

And the wire services used them overnight and got some very good publicity.

I didn't see any of it on television tonight, but I did hear it on the radio.

That's all right.

That'll help.

So they're coming along.

The spirit was very good up there.

Taft was good.

Saxby was good.

You know, one of the most miserable characters is this Matthias.

Did you see what he did today?

No, I didn't, but he's... Oh, he said that, well, he said, I think those people down there, referring to the White House, they fear you.

And he said, well, why?

Well, because they don't know you like I know you.

For Christ's sakes.

Isn't that awful?

He's one of our worst...

I apologize for him all the time.

Well, I think we should treat him with cold disdain.

I really believe that.

Well, I think he's about the only one that we can't get anywhere with.

Yeah.

I don't think Schweiker, for example, is that bad, do you?

No, he's not that bad.

He may disagree with us, but he keeps his mouth shut.

Matthias just goes out of his way to... Well, he's a separate case, that's all.

How did the House members do this afternoon, Mr. President?

They were fine.

Yeah, they were good.

Were they a little more upbeat?

Oh, yes, they were strong, upbeat, sure.

I talked to Clark, and we tried to get him ginned up a little bit.

Sure, they were fine.

And I don't mind the Senate being down.

The Senate basically are sort of a bunch of individualists and whiners.

They really get down to it, aren't they?

Yes, they are.

Prima donna is more so than the House fellows.

Yes.

But I think the senators that spoke today did so with a lot of spirit.

I was just tickled to see it.

I don't know how the newspapers will play it, but they sure did well on the wires and the radio.

We came out reasonably balanced tonight.

I think it could have been a lot worse than it was, especially with the arrests up at the Supreme Court.

Did that get a big play?

I guess it did.

It had to.

It did, because they marched off as...

POWs with the hands over their heads.

Naturally, the three networks played that, and they played this fellow, Kerry, who was a pretty articulate young man.

He's well-coached, well-coached in what he's doing.

But I don't think they're making a positive impression on the country.

You don't think?

They still didn't look so good.

Oh, they looked terrible, just awful.

And...

every picture of them.

I liked that one last night.

Did you happen to notice the one of Ted Kennedy sitting among the veterans?

I told Scali that I'd pay him $100 out of my own pocket if he could get that on the AP wire photo instead of just the Washington Star, because I just can't imagine people seeing that without being turned off, frankly.

Well, he went in saying, I'm with you all the way, and that

Gee, he really went slobbered all over him, didn't he?

Yes, he sure did.

He's decided to go that line, but Muskie's kind of quieted off on him a little, huh?

Well, I think Muskie was frightened by the publicity.

He just hasn't even been visible much this week.

I noticed Hubert got the biggest hand, apparently, at the fundraising dinner, huh?

Oh, did he?

I didn't... That's what the paper said tonight.

Isabel Shelton, at least, said that.

I'm not surprised.

Not surprised at all.

I think Muskie's running into trouble with the regulars in the party.

I wonder why.

Well, I just don't think they warm up to him.

I don't think they...

He's been very indecisive, and then he's played the left.

He made an awful mistake up in Providence.

What did he do there, Chuck?

Well, what he did, Mr. President, was to...

The governor and the regular Democratic organization and all of the labor unions boycotted the...

The governor boycotted it?

He wouldn't go to it, yes, sir.

Yeah, well, he's kind of a screwball, too, but he boycotted it.

Well, good for him.

Well, the labor unions put the pressure on, primarily, because they thought it was a Lowenstein radical kid rally.

Muskie went in and met with them ahead of time and tried to persuade them to come out.

I don't believe he got the governor out.

I'm pretty sure he did not.

But none of the labor unions would come, and they told their members not to come.

i don't think mccloskey's getting a hell of a lot at play is he this uh veterans things are taken a little away from him hasn't it it's taken a lot away from him and i don't i don't know where he goes for his next issue he hasn't really caught fire with this i think that the bombing in laos is a very sophisticated issue from a public standpoint they don't public doesn't uh i mean that's that's an issue that if americans aren't dying they aren't worried too much right exactly and

Where he goes from this, I don't know.

I think he may have shot what he had this week.

He'll still appeal to the kids.

He'll still... Yeah, because he's attractive and articulate and sincere.

He'll move around the country with the kids, but...

But he's a little cracked, I think.

He's emotionally under some pressure.

There's no doubt about that.

Yes, yeah.

I think he's... Well, I think we just leave him alone a little.

I don't know.

I think...

let's let him see what happens over the weekend on him well some of my some of my friends in the house mr president some of them i talked to today tell me that that if the war issue cools down that uh mccloskey is the kind of fellow who just might turn right around and come out for us i don't believe it but those who know him well say that he's a very very serious

Very intense kind of fella.

He could turn around like Saxby, huh?

Exactly.

Boy, that Saxby has really turned, hasn't he?

He spoke today.

Yeah, well?

He joined the Senators and spoke again.

And just laid it on the line.

He did it yesterday on the Today Show.

You see, it's good to have a man who's sort of been against us to be sort of speaking up for us, isn't it?

Well, as John Skelly pointed out this afternoon, Saxby looks to us like kind of a hick, but...

He has a lot of appeal, and the fact that he has, to many people, there's something about him that has, John's opinion has an appeal across the country, and he's being very articulate in what he's talking about.

He's a smart fellow, you know.

He's a bright guy.

I guess he is.

Former Attorney General.

But he's a newsworthy personality in that respect.

And he sure has come around.

He's been marvelous.

I called him and thanked him for it.

Good.

Keep him going.

I'm going to send in a note for you to call Rainwater tomorrow because even though he's always there when we need him.

Sure, we'll call him.

He was just superb today.

Good.

He got a full minute on the two networks I watched tonight.

He was just great.

Just what we needed.

Because he's a BFW, a veteran of foreign wars, you know, and those boys are...

Okay.

Well, they're tough.

Yeah.

They're tough.

And I think this thing's turning them off, too, don't you think?

Oh, completely.

Totally.

And I think if there's a little student outpouring this weekend, it's not going to hurt us a bit.

Then we'll see how big it is.

It could be very big.

It could be maybe a quarter of a million.

It might not be.

I'll be surprised if it's that large.

You would be?

I will be surprised, yes, sir.

Mm-hmm.

I think if it were going to build up that much, there'd be a lot more of them here by now than there are.

As a matter of fact, too, we may get a break with the weather.

I mean, it didn't rain today.

It might rain tomorrow.

Well, that would sure help down in that mall area.

I drove by it today, and it's quite a sight.

Is it?

What is it?

Well, it's worse than Resurrection City, which I remember a few years back.

It's much dirtier.

The kids are just awful.

They're all long hairs.

You can smell the marijuana when you drive by it.

Boy.

And they're lying on the ground.

It's just one big block that's a mess.

And if people saw it, well, they do.

They see it on television.

The television does show it, does it?

It's worse when you see it in person.

Television doesn't want to show it as bad as it is, but it's pretty hard not to show some of it, isn't it?

It's pretty hard to miss it.

but it's an awful scroungy lot of people that are assembled there.

Scali, how does City feel about it?

He's getting right into the groove.

No, I think he feels that the handling of it so far has been just exactly right, as I do.

We haven't tried not to arrest them.

That's right.

Let the Chief Justice arrest a few, but... Well, and they refused to arrest two that were amputees.

Of course, they shouldn't.

Which was marvelous.

Right.

So I think so far it's gone just exactly right.

If it continues on this basis, I think we're fine.

Tomorrow nothing's going to happen because the Attorney General has vacated the order or moved to vacate it in view of the fact that there's nothing more to it.

You know, we can't do anything in a day, so that's that.

Had no choice with that district judge that we had.

And they may stay.

And then if they stay, then we may move on them next week.

Well, they'll be, if they stay this weekend, they'll be swallowed up in the crowd, and then it won't be a veterans thing.

It'll be just a great big mess.

Yeah.

They'll lose the separate identity of veterans, which is the only thing they've got going for them.

Right.

Okay.

I do have the feeling that our fellows up on the hill are getting just a little better for us.

Yeah.

Well, there's been two or three things now in the last ten days that they've done and done it well.

Yeah.

We may get them into shape.

Well, one thing that's helping us in an indirect way is the fact that the economy is moving, you know, reasonably well now, don't you think?

It's moving better than reasonably well, I think.

But, I mean, these guys know it.

They sense that.

The politicians, oh, absolutely.

Yeah, and that, well, after all, maybe we're doing a few things right.

Who knows?

That's exactly right.

There'll be an interesting story out this weekend, Mr. President, then.

on the muskie in the main sugar plant.

Is that going to break?

It's going to break on Saturday.

Pretty good story.

Think anybody will use it?

Oh, well, Monomouth, of course, is using it.

It's his column, and he's in about 200 newspapers now.

Good.

But it'll be picked up by others because it's a good enough story that it'll carry on.

Then Big Ed's got to answer that.

He's got some answering to do on this one.

Good.

Okay.

We'll stay after it, sir.

Thank you.