{"conversationCode":"003-023","tapeNumber":3,"conversationNumber":23,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-003-023","startDateTime":"1971-05-12T20:30:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-05-12T20:32:00.000Z","startDate":"12-May-1971","startTime":"4:30 PM","endDate":"12-May-1971","endTime":"4:32 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ford, Gerald R.;","description":"On May 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone from 4:30 pm to 4:32 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 003-023 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 003-023\n\nDate: May 12, 1971\nTime: 4:30 pm - 4:32 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Gerald R. Ford.\n\n     Supersonic transport [SST] vote\n          -Tally\n          -President's talk with William E. Timmons\n\n            -President's possible letters to supporters\n            -Democrats\n                  -Edward P. Boland\n                  -John McFall\n            -Morale in House\n            -Upcoming Senate vote\n                  -Alan Cranston, John V. Tunney, David H. Gambrell\n                  -Clinton P. Anderson\n                  -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson\n                  -John Sherman Cooper\n                        -President's role\n                  -An unnamed Floridian [Lawton M. Chiles, Jr.?]\n                  -Hubert H, Humphrey\n                        -George Meany's role\n                  -Compared to previous vote\n                        -Humphrey\n            -Cost figures\n                  -Effect\n            -Future House-Senate conference action\n            -Future Senate action","filename":["003-023.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:25:11","tapeEnd":"00:27:34","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ford, Gerald R."],"prevCode":"003-022","nextCode":"003-024","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":1.92,"text":"Congressman Ford, sir."},{"start":1.98,"end":2.56,"text":"Hi, Mr. President."},{"start":2.58,"end":3.18,"text":"Well, you made it."},{"start":3.2,"end":4.58,"text":"201-197."},{"start":4.6,"end":5.82,"text":"That's great."},{"start":5.92,"end":6.53,"text":"That's great."},{"start":6.87,"end":11.78,"text":"And tell me, we've got some guys that really stuck their necks out."},{"start":11.98,"end":17.45,"text":"Well, I'll tell you, if you would, I just got a hold of Timmons, and I said to get us a list."},{"start":17.43,"end":20.78,"text":"I'll get a few notes down there so that, you know."},{"start":21.1,"end":22.38,"text":"It would be very helpful."},{"start":22.46,"end":25.67,"text":"Now, who was the fellow that helped you mainly in the Democratic side?"},{"start":26.49,"end":27.21,"text":"Eddie Boland."},{"start":27.57,"end":27.95,"text":"Boland."},{"start":28.39,"end":31.34,"text":"And John McFaul of California."},{"start":31.7,"end":31.84,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":32.48,"end":35.77,"text":"They were the ones that really did the job for us."},{"start":35.79,"end":36.53,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":36.85,"end":37.79,"text":"How do the fellows feel?"},{"start":38.01,"end":39.27,"text":"Oh, they feel great."},{"start":39.3,"end":44.67,"text":"Even the ones that were against us agree we put a real shot in the arm."},{"start":44.69,"end":47.65,"text":"Yeah, but is the spirit good on it, Jerry?"},{"start":47.67,"end":49.52,"text":"Yeah, nobody's unhappy."},{"start":50.58,"end":54.15,"text":"The ones that lost know we put on a good fight."},{"start":54.41,"end":54.73,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":54.71,"end":59.21,"text":"And, well, it turned it around."},{"start":59.27,"end":65.84,"text":"Now on the Senate side, you've got people working on them already, I suppose."},{"start":65.86,"end":67.56,"text":"I haven't started there yet."},{"start":67.61,"end":68.17,"text":"Yeah, I know."},{"start":68.49,"end":71.87,"text":"But I think Cranston and Tunney and Gambrow."},{"start":71.89,"end":72.43,"text":"And Gambrow."},{"start":73.03,"end":73.75,"text":"They're the keys."},{"start":73.89,"end":74.33,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":74.45,"end":79.18,"text":"Well, I think with Anderson, Scoop ought to be able to switch him around."},{"start":79.2,"end":79.78,"text":"There's one."},{"start":79.84,"end":80.12,"text":"Right."},{"start":80.1,"end":86.01,"text":"And I'm going to try Cooper myself just on a personal basis."},{"start":86.05,"end":86.89,"text":"That could be two."},{"start":87.01,"end":89.83,"text":"But whether you get one of those other three and that"},{"start":90.75,"end":91.93,"text":"fellow from Florida."},{"start":91.99,"end":93.17,"text":"Somebody ought to get to him."},{"start":93.43,"end":96.66,"text":"And another, can't George Meany switch Hubert around?"},{"start":96.72,"end":98.06,"text":"He's always very flexible."},{"start":98.16,"end":100.88,"text":"Well, particularly in view of the fact that it's a different..."},{"start":101.26,"end":105.06,"text":"I'll tell you, if there's any way you can describe this as a different vote than the other one."},{"start":105.1,"end":105.75,"text":"See my point?"},{"start":105.81,"end":105.98,"text":"Right."},{"start":106.59,"end":110.67,"text":"Now, if you can figure out a way to do that, I think you could get Hubert switched."},{"start":110.69,"end":114.69,"text":"Well, there are some cost figures that persuaded some of our guys."},{"start":115.05,"end":115.51,"text":"Is that right?"},{"start":115.61,"end":115.91,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":116.19,"end":116.81,"text":"Okay."},{"start":117.25,"end":118.46,"text":"Well, I congratulate you."},{"start":118.48,"end":120,"text":"That was a really..."},{"start":119.98,"end":141.04,"text":"courageous job and and it'll have far far-flung repercussions if we can even regardless of what happened but at least it goes to conference now doesn't it right they have to take it to conference and when it goes to conference the house isn't going to yield is it i don't think so but if we could win over the senate boy we're back on the back okay jerry thank you for calling mr president"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Representative Gerald R. Ford discussed the successful 201-197 House vote to revive the Supersonic Transport (SST) program. The two leaders strategized on how to maintain momentum for the upcoming Senate vote, specifically identifying key Democratic swing votes and potential lobbyists like George Meany. Nixon committed to personally contacting Senator John Sherman Cooper while planning to recognize the House members who supported the administration's position.","topics":["Supersonic transport (SST)","Legislative strategy","Gerald R. Ford","Congressional relations","George Meany","House-Senate conference"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T21:22:42.891Z"},"topicSlugs":["supersonic-transport","legislative-strategy","gerald-r-ford","congressional-relations","george-meany","house-senate-conference"],"audioDurationSec":141,"audioFiles":[{"file":"003-023.mp3","bytes":1761280,"durationSec":141.22,"bitrate":99777,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:20.570Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:33.593Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/003-023.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/003-023","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/003/conversation-003-023","catalogNaId":417188293,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417188293","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}