Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 3 › Conversation 003-069

Nixon phone call with Rogers on Mathias resolution and Mansfield Amendment

Wednesday, May 19, 1971 · 6:11 PM–6:15 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Rogers, William P.Conversation003-069 on Tape 3 (tape position 01:26:45–01:30:59)StartWednesday, May 19, 1971 at 6:11 PMEndWednesday, May 19, 1971 at 6:15 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 003-069 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Secretary of State William P. Rogers coordinate legislative strategy to defeat the Mathias resolution, an amendment regarding troop reductions that the administration views as undermining foreign policy. Rogers updates the President on his discussions with Senator Mike Mansfield regarding a sensitive upcoming announcement and outlines his plan to lobby Senators Charles Percy and John Sherman Cooper to block the resolution. The President emphasizes the importance of preventing leaks while stressing that the resolution's call for unilateral NATO reductions would cripple ongoing negotiations with the Soviet Union.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello.
Hi, Mr. President.
I wondered if you had any, had your talk, what if anything came out of your Mansfield talk?
Chapin told me you... Well, I talked to him, and I just told him that there'd been a breakthrough, and that you could have announced it earlier, but you didn't want to.
Because of the vote, it worked it out, so there are going to be simultaneous announcements.
I said it's not a conclusion yet, but it's very hopeful.
And it's something the president has undertaken himself, and it's very successful, we think.
And he's going to have a meeting with you and the others tomorrow.
And you're the only one we've told.
And I wanted to let you know this.
And the president wanted you to know that we didn't want any leak at all or anything.
So I didn't tell him very much except that.
And he seemed to be appreciative.
uh we still have a little problem understand matthias resolution yeah yeah i was bob holloman just uh told me that you uh i understand the damn thing isn't going to come up till seven o'clock and it's very close yeah and i'm just i just finished talking to percy and i'm gonna try to get cooper you know you know the real problem is about bill is that damn it uh
If these guys could only just wait.
I mean, if they could only realize they're going to look better tomorrow.
Well, I didn't tell them.
You could almost imply that.
Well, I said to Percy, things are going damn well now.
Yeah, that's right.
And why don't you support the president?
Why do you have to have something?
He says, I voted for the president.
What's wrong with that?
I pointed out that the bill didn't make any sense as drafted.
Yeah.
Well, I thought I'd make some other calls.
I'm going to call Cooper and a few others.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When you call Cooper, you might just tell him that you and I have talked, and I just consider this, for reasons that he will know later in the week, is enormously important.
I put it to him hard.
Could you do that?
Sure.
Because I've asked John to do things, and he's sometimes done them and sometimes hasn't.
But I just say that for a reason.
I just can't tell you anything, but I just think there's something.
We don't want any leaks or anything, and I wouldn't tell him.
But one thing about Mike, Mike will never leak anything.
No, he won't.
He is awfully good that way.
That's right.
And he will appreciate the fact, Bill, that you called him.
That's right.
Because tomorrow, what he hears is it's going to be like a dash of cold water.
That's right.
I mean, he'll like that it's done, but it'll be like a dash of cold water in the sense that hereafter he was...
you know putting up an amendment to tie our hands that we've accomplished something that's right okay well let me i'll make a few calls i'll try to get what time is the vote another hour so they're not too sure yeah yeah what does it count what do you have uh well i think it's it's still fluid most of them don't know yeah you know they all think that mansfield is beaten yeah and they think this is innocuous yeah and in a sense it is it doesn't it isn't controlling the way the other was yeah it's uh
They want to vote for something.
They want to vote for something, and most of them haven't read it.
And Percy kept saying, well, this is not the spirit.
And I said, come on, Chuck, it's not the spirit.
It's what's written on the piece of paper.
The piece of paper says that the president should negotiate with the Russians on the one hand for mutual reductions and negotiate with NATO for unilateral reductions.
Now, nothing could be more mutually inconsistent.
Yeah.
The second part destroys the first, right?
Yeah.
Well, that's right.
You can't negotiate with NATO unilaterally, and that destroys your capacity to do the other.
I said in my letter that I sent to the Senate, he hasn't used it yet, but I told him he could if he wanted to.
I ended up by saying the reporting procedure is very simple, because we can tell you now what the report is.
Progress in our discussions and negotiations with the Russians on mutual reductions.
Our progress is none.
Good.
It'll be none every time until, if it looks as if they're going to put pressure on you to reduce our forces unilaterally.
Yeah.
And that'll make us look silly at NATO.
I said, what the hell can I tell the NATO people?
They go, gee, he's a great stand-up son of a bitch.
Isn't he, though?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I'll make some calls.
Good luck.
Okay, then.

NARA Description

On May 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 6:11 pm to 6:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 003-069 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 003-069

Date: May 19, 1971
Time: 6:11 pm - 6:15 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with William P. Rogers.

[See Conversation No. 501-030B]

     Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
         -Meeting with Rogers
                -Dwight L. Chapin
                -Announcements
                     -President's role
                     -Possible meeting with President

     Mathias resolution
         -President's meeting H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
         -Upcoming vote
                -Rogers’ talk with Charles H. Percy
                -Rogers’ forthcoming call to John Sherman Cooper
                -Timing
                -Rogers’ call to Percy
                -Rogers’ calls
                      -Cooper
                           -President's position

     Mansfield
          -Mansfield Amendment
               -Effect of President's announcement

       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542

     Mathias resolution
         -Rogers’ calls
         -Upcoming vote
                -Time
                -Possible outcome
                -Effect
                      -Percy
                      -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                      -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
         -Rogers’ letter to John C. Stennis
                -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
                -Stennis

Also recorded on May 19, 1971

  • 501-029 4:38 PM · 1 hr 26 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Henry A. Kissinger, John A. Scali, Ronald L. Ziegler, Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Robert H. Finch met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:38 pm to 6:10 pm.
  • 003-068 6:10 PM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:10 pm and 6:11 pm.
  • 501-030 6:10 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and William P. Rogers met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:10 pm to 6:16 pm.
  • 003-070 6:16 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:16 pm and 7:44 pm.
  • 003-071 7:44 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at 7:44 pm.
  • 003-072 7:47 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:47 pm and 7:48 pm.
  • 003-073 7:48 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 7:48 pm to 7:50 pm.
  • 003-074 7:50 PM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:50 pm and 7:55 pm.

All 48 conversations from May 19, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 003-069, May 19, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/003-069 (accessed October 23, 2026).