Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 4 › Conversation 004-030

Nixon phone call with Mitchell on John V. Lindsay and Nelson A. Rockefeller

Friday, June 4, 1971 · 2:24 PM–2:33 PM ET · White House Telephone · 8 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.Conversation004-030 on Tape 4 (tape position 01:34:55–01:43:16)StartFriday, June 4, 1971 at 2:24 PMEndFriday, June 4, 1971 at 2:33 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 004-030 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Attorney General John Mitchell discuss the political fallout from a recent meeting with police chiefs, specifically regarding the exclusion of New York City Police Commissioner Patrick Murphy. The conversation shifts to the ongoing tensions between New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller and Mayor John Lindsay, with both men criticizing Lindsay’s administrative abilities and his reliance on liberal staff. Finally, they touch upon the political future of Lindsay, speculating on his upcoming speaking engagements in New Hampshire and the viability of his potential political ambitions.

  • John V. Lindsay
  • Nelson A. Rockefeller
  • Patrick V. Murphy
  • Municipal administration
  • New York City politics
  • Republican Party strategy

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yeah.
The Attorney General, Mr. President.
Hello.
The President.
Hello.
Yes, Mr. President.
Well, on our operation yesterday, I was very pleased with it.
I mean, I was, you know, the fact they had this flap over Murphy just made it a hell of a lot bigger story than otherwise it had been.
I think that's absolutely true.
And, of course, the stories are now coming over the wire today where the chiefs of police are defending the fact there wasn't any necessity to have Murphy or this other character, Tam, there.
We couldn't have everybody and, you know, it's a room only holds so many.
In any event, I think the controlling factor was that Murphy had criticized the chief here, the hell with him.
I'm not going to have you in the room because we had unanimous opinion on that.
And otherwise, with Murphy there, we'd have had a sorrow ball.
Well, in addition, that would have been an insult to Jerry Wilson to bring him down here.
That's right.
That's right.
And what it was done in the city.
Well, he isn't considered, John, as he'd be a great chief up in New York.
No, no place.
No place.
He's just a lib politician.
That's all he is.
That's right.
And one of a...
one of Lindsey's.
What do you think of this running battle between Rocky and Lindsey?
Is that just going to go on or is that just part of the scenario?
No, it's going to go on and as soon as that legislature is out of there, I understand that Nelson is interested in taking some definitive steps such as taking over some of the functions possibly or possibly putting a commission
like the old Seabury investigation in there to see what he's doing wrong, and I think he's going to stay with it because it's going to make him a lot more credible.
Rockefeller has been refusing to meet Lindsey's state aid request for the...
a reason that Lindsey is not properly administering the city and expending his monies properly.
So in order to make that credible after he gets through the legislature, I think he'll take further steps along some lines to prove this to be true.
That's good.
Good.
As a matter of fact,
from all accounts, and of course I guess Ryland is a fellow that colors my comments, but I think Lindsey's just been a lousy mayor.
Oh, he's terrible.
He's a demagogue and a poor administrator.
What he has done, Mr. President, has caused him so much trouble.
He's gone in this liberal community.
There's not a single...
uh city employee that's working for him that's worth a damn all the good ones have up and gone yeah and he's got in all these do-gooders that are trying to run budgets and administer departments and it just isn't working the good employees have left are the good tough yeah they've all gone and he had some good ones at the beginning i helped him get some of them
But they've all packed out here a couple of years ago.
What does he have then?
Just sort of a bunch of intellectuals, so-called, or what?
Yeah, his top man of this Aurelio is a liberal Democrat who is one of the complete do-gooders.
And that's been siphoned on down all through his administrative organization and his advisory commissions and so forth.
And they just don't have anybody there that knows anything about municipal government.
or how to manage it or have even a desire to do the right things in other words i'll take care of this welfare element and the liberal establishment the hell with the city's finances and how you administer a city yeah yeah yeah good well we'll uh
John Lindsay's going to make a commencement address in New Hampshire.
Oh, Lindsay is?
Yeah.
He's got three speeches, I understand.
He's having quite a bit of difficulty deciding which one he's going to use.
You mean in New Hampshire?
Yeah.
Probably kick us on the war.
Undoubtedly that, but he's got one of them that's real hard and then a middle of the rotor and a...
lighter one, and it may give some indication as to what he's got in mind.
He hasn't got very many places to go, but there's people who are still toying with it and looking around.

NARA Description

On June 4, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 2:24 pm to 2:33 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 004-030 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 4-30

Date: June 4, 1971
Time: 2:24 pm - 2:33 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John N. Mitchell.

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/13/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]

[004-030-w002]
[Duration: 2m 6s]

      Arlen Specter
             -The President’s opinion
                     -Combination of conservative and liberal policy beliefs
             -John N. Mitchell’s opinion
             -The President’s opinion
                     -Potential political future
             -John N. Mitchell’s conversation with Arlen Specter
                     -Liaison
                     -Political assessment
             -The President’s opinion
                     -Usefulness of Arlen Specter
                     -Potential outcome of 1971 Philadelphia mayoral election
                             -Lose Philadelphia by 300,000 votes
             -John N. Mitchell’s opinion
                     -Top Republican officeholder in Philadelphia area
                     -Arlen Specter’s 1967 campaign for Philadelphia mayor
                     -Ambitions
             -Spelling of surname

******************************************************************************

     Meeting with Police Chiefs, June 3
          -Patrick V. Murphy, New York City Chief of Police
          -Quinn Tamm
          -Murphy
          -Jerry V. Wilson, Washington, DC Chief of Police

     John V. Lindsay-Nelson Rockefeller debate
          -Seabury commission analogy
          -New York state financial aid to New York City

     Lindsay
          -Dr. Kenneth W. Riland
          -Lindsay’s administration of New York City
          -New York City civil servants
                -[Forename unknown] Cirillio [?]
          -New York City programs and finances

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/13/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[004-030-w003]
[Duration: 9s]

      Arlen Specter
             -The President’s request to John N. Mitchell
                    -Potential political future for Arlen Specter
                           -Age
                           -Abilities

******************************************************************************

     Lindsay
          -Forthcoming speech
                -Possible content

**********************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/13/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[004-030-w001]
[Duration: 1m 40s]

      John V. Lindsay
             -Staff
                    -Encouraging switch in political party loyalty
             -Older staff and fundraisers
                    -Encouraging loyalty to Republican Party
             -Indecisiveness
                    -John N. Mitchell’s opinion
             -The President’s opinion of a potential party switch
                    -Reaction of donors
             -Access of donors

                      -New York City
              -The President’s opinion of John V. Lindsay remaining Republican
                      -John V. Lindsay as potential liberal candidate
              -John N. Mitchell’s opinion
                      -John V. Lindsay’s political future
                              -Republican Party
                              -Potential Republican Party 1972 presidential nominee
                              -Potential 1976 presidential candidate
                                      -National exposure
                      -Lessons learned by John V. Lindsay in 1968
                              -Conservatism of Republican Party convention
                              -Problems posed by liberal political positions
                              -Lack of success of Nelson A. Rockfeller’s presidential campaign
              -Difficulties faced by John V. Lindsay

**********************************************************************

Also recorded on June 4, 1971

  • 255-002 2:24 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:24 pm and 2:33 pm.
  • 255-003 2:24 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:24 pm and 2:33 pm.
  • 004-031 2:33 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone from 2:33 pm to 2:34 pm.
  • 255-043 2:33 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:33 pm to 2:34 pm.
  • 004-032 2:34 PM · 22 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 2:34 pm to 2:54 pm.
  • 255-004 2:34 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:34 pm to 2:54 pm.
  • 255-005 2:54 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:54 pm and 3:10 pm.
  • 255-006 2:54 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:54 pm and 3:10 pm.

All 55 conversations from June 4, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 004-030, June 4, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/004-030 (accessed September 27, 2026).