Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam Veterans and 1972 Election

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Hello.

Yes, sir, Mr. President.

Well, how are you getting along?

Well, I think we're having a good week.

A lot of fun with your friends.

I had the most refreshing experience, Mr. President, I've had in a long time this week with the group of Vietnam veterans who have organized for us.

It was a great job.

Oh.

Well, they came in to see me after their press conference, which, by the way, got remarkable coverage.

Yeah, all of them I saw.

And this boy, O'Neill, who's, God, you'd just be proud of him.

There were ten of them.

One of them, by the way, had been arrested for tearing down a Viet Cong flag a year ago.

They're just marvelous kids.

And 100% behind you, they talked about the drug problem in Vietnam.

They said, don't.

They said it's a problem, but no worse than in the high schools.

That's what I think.

In fact, the Marines in the outfit in that group said it was much less in Vietnam.

He said that this is all another one of the press exaggerations.

These fellows are going out speaking in various parts of the country for us.

They were invited on Face the Nation this week for a debate with Kerry, but Kerry turned them down.

refused to debate O'Neill, which is a point we'll get out to the press.

They're just a grand bunch, and a few more like this, and I think we can get people thinking in different terms.

Yeah, yeah, we can get them, well, of course, they can get equal time, I think, as they move around, and

That's good.

And Kerry may start to wear a little thin in time.

Well, there have been some fascinating stories about him.

There's one out now that his own organization is going to dump him.

And we've gotten out to the wire services the fact that he refused to debate O'Neill.

I think he's beginning to tarnish.

I think his image is tarnishing.

And these young fellows, we've had some luck getting them placed.

Have you?

Yes, sir.

And we'll start seeing more of them.

Oh, boy, that's great.

And they haven't given up, then, these guys?

They would give you the greatest lift.

I told them that I couldn't recommend their going to see you.

I know it looked like it was a fix, but at some time I want to thank them.

I said that later in the summer, after they've done more of what they're doing...

that they ought to come in, and I was thinking of it almost as much from your standpoint as from theirs.

They're just believers.

They think we've done the right thing.

Doing the right thing and continue to do the right thing.

They claim that all of their friends, they said to me, O'Neill said to me, I don't know how you fellows survive here in Washington.

He said, when you get out in the country, you'll find that people think like we think.

And he said, when you come here and you watch what you have to watch every night and you listen to this,

constant chatter and this constant bickering at you he said but let me tell you it just isn't that way out in the country isn't that something well

I think the police news has moved very well this week.

You know, I just talked to Mitchell, and I think that flap over Murphy made the story bigger.

And actually, on Murphy, I wouldn't have the son of a bitch there because he'd taken Wilson on.

I didn't make the decision, but I was delighted that Mitchell decided he wouldn't have him because he took Jerry Wilson on.

I wasn't going to have him in that room.

Well, I heard from one of my old friends in Boston today, Boston Democratic Irish, one of the best Paul I know, and he calls me every now and then when he really gets excited about something.

He said, I just wish that...

He called me after your welfare speech at Williamsburg and said the same thing.

And he said, I just wish you were running today because, he said, you'd take every Boston Irishman with you.

They all love the cops and they hate the kids.

You know, their police chief was fine in the meeting, too, you know, the Boston police chief.

Oh, sure.

Those chiefs were, they were refreshing.

God damn, they're good Americans.

They'd never been in the White House before, you know.

Isn't that something?

Well, you know, no president ever sat down with the police chiefs and sheriffs of the nation.

Did you realize that?

No, and I think that's the story.

They told me that.

We ought to get that story.

They said, we have never had it.

And we just didn't.

We were just so overwhelmed that you'd invite us and cared for us and were willing to sit with us and stand with us.

Well, for Christ's sakes, that's a hell of a note.

It really is.

And boy, I'm telling you, we had them in there.

So we've had district attorneys in and judges and this and that, but never the chiefs.

Never the sheriffs.

Oh, boy, they were just.

And, boy, they were gung-ho.

Well, they did a great job.

One of them said afterwards, a fellow says, we had Eisenhower Democrats in Virginia in 52, now we're having Nixon Democrats, you know, that sort of thing.

Well, they did a good job on television last night, too.

The head of the association who came on and said that you've done more for the police in this country and more for the police and for law and order than any administration in history.

This is very powerful.

We've got to keep repeating the story.

Keep it around.

You know, you make a little blip and then it drops out like welfare or anything else, but we'll find a way.

We've got to keep surfacing this story about once every month.

There are some kinds of stories that do carry themselves, and I think this one will.

It will.

Yes, sir.

Not that we shouldn't keep doing things.

We should.

Time to help properly.

But people get an impression, and I think thanks to the press conference...

which is what my friend called about.

Thanks to the press conference, people will not forget which side you're on on that issue.

Well, that probably had some effect, mainly because the press kept asking the question.

Oh, God.

If the press had dropped it, I mean, it would have been just one answer.

But the bastards thought they were going to gig it, so they kept hitting it.

And, boy, I was delighted.

The more they asked it, I was just hoping they'd ask it again.

I sat there gleeful because everyone around here was worried that, my golly, they're trying to put him on the ropes.

I said, it's marvelous.

You're making the point.

Sure.

And the more often you answer that question, the way you answered it,

And certainly the better.

That's right, you stick to it.

No, sir, I don't, I never believe, we have to realize, a little controversy is sometimes just the only way you make the point.

And cracking that one, we finally got across the point, at least before a great number of people, that we were strong on that issue.

And I've said it many other times, but this time they heard it.

A more lasting impression is made by whom you are against than whom you are for.

Being against the mayday vandals, as you put it.

And against the press.

And being badgered by the press.

That's right.

The combination of circumstances.

There'll never be any doubt in the public's mind where you stand on that issue.

You don't think so?

No, sir.

And Dick Kleindienst picked it up beautifully.

He drew Kennedy out into an answer yesterday, which I think is just superb.

Also, we are still holding at 50 in approval, which isn't bad.

It's doing good with the travel.

With the two drags, the war and the economy.

The economic thing, it'll start turning.

It's a little slower than we had hoped, but when it does move, it'll move, in my opinion.

I think that's absolutely right.

I think it's just, as I said to you once before, there's going to be a spark in it.

will happen at some point when people start buying again and something will trigger it off and it's nothing we predict.

The public is very fickle about things like that.

Harris, by the way, agrees with me on a thesis I have about the validity of polls right now.

The public sentiment is very, very hard to detect and it's difficult and it's volatile.

It'll shift back and forth.

that the basic serious question that people always have to answer in their own minds when they vote for president is impossible to really assess right now.

Right now they're beauty contests because there's no meaning to them.

The moment you attach meaning to them and people feel, well now I've got to seriously exercise my franchise and pick a leader, a certain, excuse me, a certain degree of seriousness gets into it.

It's easy.

to go to the racetrack and bet when you're not putting your money up.

And you can bet kind of recklessly.

But when you've got to place that $2 on the counter, you get a hell of a lot more serious.

And this is why I just pay no attention to these things.

Do you think both of these, all these polls were taken before the SALT thing and so forth, do you think that's had any effect on public opinion?

Yes, sir.

Really?

I think it has on intellectuals, but I was telling Holland this morning that

and Kissinger that I seriously doubt that it really affected the average guy.

I don't think he knows what the hell it is.

Well, he doesn't have to know what it is, sir.

Well, but did it get enough play to really matter?

The China thing didn't have much effect.

No, but it does it in a very subtle way.

Now, the fellow that called me from Boston today, who's been an infallible political barometer for me for 20 years on sort of the attitudes of the man in the street, very skilled politician, he's a heck of a lot more impressed by...

your answers in the press conference to the Mayday thing than he is to Saul.

On the other hand, the fact that things are going on that people don't understand, that are going on at a very high level, that maybe result in some lessening of world tensions, somehow, and people don't quite understand how or why, is very reassuring to them.

And it's one of those things that registers in a

less obvious and less dramatic way, but it nonetheless, it builds a confidence.

It's a portion of the confidence building that people develop over a period of time, and it's nothing that they would go back and point to.

Is it Harris' view that they help or not?

Oh, he feels very strongly.

Of course, he's an intellectual.

Yeah, but he thinks that kind of stuff helps.

He thinks so, and he thinks so

Of course, the thing is that the war so overrides the other international issues that I don't know, but we'll see.

Well, but that isn't going to remain that way.

No, that's going to change.

We still have a few months left.

It's a pattern that needs to emerge.

And if people begin to feel that, well, there was a crisis in the Middle East, but you handled it, and there has been something happening in disarmament, and it's going well, and the Russians seem to be dealing with you,

And things are quieting down elsewhere.

This builds the kind of confidence that when they come to vote, they get very serious about, as distinguished from their specific attitudes on specific points.

And I think that's very valid.

I think it's the kind of thing that...

I suppose that the only effect really polls is on the political types.

They may get the impression that, you know, our congressional types...

if they see trial heats closer, their worries, although the approval thing may balance it off too.

I don't know.

Well, the partisans care.

The partisans look at it, and it affects money, and it affects how spirited your people are.

We don't have any problem with money.

None in that respect, and none in terms of the partisanship.

So I think what it does is prove very divisive to the other side, and that's damn beneficial.

That's right.

Did Bob tell you about the Viacom development, Mr. President, with CBS?

Oh, yeah.

Well, yes, they didn't get it.

Well, it's been held up in a very peculiar way, and I will be seeing Paley in another week.

Yeah, that's very interesting.

We'll just... Well, we had nothing to do with it.

The guy just wasn't there.

Well, our man left, which was the best of all worlds.

I would kind of like to juggle that, and if you approve at the right time...

deliver for them, but with a clear understanding that we did deliver.

The idea that first we didn't hold it up, but if they ask us to help, my God, they got to help us a little.

Well, if they ask us to help and then we, in fact, do help, we have a right to look to them once in a while to be a little reasonable.

A little bit, yeah.

They've been a hell of a lot better, I think, in the last... Do you really?

Three weeks, yes, sir.

Definitely.

Why is that?

Why do you think that because of this?

Oh, I think this is a good part of it.

And I think that they've gotten the signals and they're just a little nervous.

There's enough going on, of course, with ABC, the CATV thing.

When you called Goldenson, that, God, that just did it.

Twenty minutes later, his lawyers called me right after your call and said how thrilled he was and appreciative.

Mm-hmm.

But I think all three of them have improved just a mite.

We also have an answer going to Common Cause's program this week.

Oh, I heard about that.

And it's just splendid.

Dolph Droge is on, and he is just superb.

And they've given us Wednesday night here in Washington at 8.30, which is excellent time.

Great.

That's going around the country.

So we're getting a little bit... That's right.

Get our side out.

We're getting more of it out.

Good.

I feel it's, you see it in little ways and you see it with these kids who come in and the more enthusiasm that they have now is a reflection of.

Another thing too about our side, the fact that the networks have been playing so heavily the negative stuff makes our side

new and therefore news exactly and that and therefore people say well maybe there is another side you know there's always these things there's always a counteraction to these things yes and we in fact do help that we have a right to look to them once in a while to be a little reasonable a little bit yeah they've been a hell of a better i think in the last three weeks yes sir definitely

Why is that?

Why do you think that?

Because of this?

Oh, I think this is a good part of it.

And I think that they've gotten the signals and they're just a little nervous.

There's enough going on, of course, with ABC, the CATV thing.

When you called Goldenson, that, God, that just did it.

Twenty minutes later, his lawyers called me right after your call and said how thrilled he was and how appreciative and...

But I think all three of them have improved just a mite.

We also have an answer going to Common Cause's program this week.

Oh, I heard about that.

And it's just splendid.

Dolph Droge is on, and he is just superb.

And they've given us Wednesday night here in Washington at 8.30, which is excellent time.

Great, great.

That's going around the country.

So we're getting a little bit... That's right, get our side out.

We're getting more of it out.

Good, good.

I feel it's, you see it in little ways and you see it with these kids who come in and the more enthusiasm that they have now is a reflection of... Another thing too about our side, the fact that the networks have been playing so heavily the negative stuff makes our side

new and therefore news.

And therefore people say, well, maybe there is another side.

There's always a counteraction to these things.

And the networks, they've so overplayed the other side, the immoral war and all that bullshit.

You know what I mean?

Well, it builds the credibility of our side.

Anybody who overplays their hand as much as they have, it's bound to have a reaction the other way.

Scully has had good effect in talking with...

He's worked in on a quiet basis.

A number of news items he's been able to get to.

He likes to do it, too.

And he does it well.

He sells them well.

Well, he's believable.

We'll always put him on things he can be believed on.

That's right.

Okay.

Fine, sir.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam Veterans and 1972 Election

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 4, 1971

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