Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 4 › Conversation 004-096

Nixon, Ziegler & Haldeman on Vietnam War and Casualty statistics

Wednesday, June 9, 1971 · 3:07 PM–3:09 PM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Conversation004-096 on Tape 4 (tape position 03:23:46–03:26:21)StartWednesday, June 9, 1971 at 3:07 PMEndWednesday, June 9, 1971 at 3:09 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 004-096 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417188859 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon, Ronald Ziegler, and H. R. Haldeman discussed how to manage media reporting regarding Vietnam casualty figures after a premature report by Howard K. Smith. Nixon emphasized the importance of formally announcing the figures to highlight that casualties had reached their lowest level since 1965, thereby validating the administration's policy following the Laos incursion. Additionally, Ziegler reported that he had publicly criticized Clark Clifford for making politically motivated, unsubstantiated claims regarding prisoners of war.

Audio

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NARA Description

On June 9, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:07 pm to 3:09 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 004-096 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 4-96

Date: June 9, 1971

Time: 3:07 pm - 3:09 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler; H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman can be heard in the
background.

[See Conversation No. 255-38A]
     Howard K. Smith's Vietnam casualty list
          -Questioning of Ziegler
          -Possible leak
          -Number of casualties
          -Release by administration
                -President's conversation with Melvin R. Laird
                -Laos

     Clark M. Clifford
          -Attack by Ziegler
          -Prisoners of war [POWs]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Yes, sir.
Hi, Ron.
I was noting in the news summary that Howard Smith put out a report with regard to the casualties last week, and indicating that the administration was putting them out two days early because they were so low.
Right.
What's the background of that?
Were you asked to confirm it?
No, sir.
I wasn't asked about it at all.
I think probably someone leaked it.
We did not issue it formally.
Well, then it'll still be issued formally, huh?
Yes, sir.
It wasn't carried by the other networks, huh?
No.
I could call Howard and talk to him.
No, no, no.
But the background is we did not release it formally.
Yeah, yeah.
Well,
Don't rub around too much.
He put out 20, didn't he?
19 was his figure.
I believe, as I recall, he referred...
The figure is 19, but the news summary said what?
Under 20.
The news summary said...
It said under 20, right.
Yeah.
But it will be formally announced, the casualty list will be formally announced.
I want it to get a damned adequate ride when it is announced.
It'll be well known.
If it is asked about it, just say it.
I'll just say we'll announce it on Thursday.
Well, we do not have the final figure.
Right.
The final figure is not known until Thursday.
All right, fine.
It'll be put out then.
Okay.
Will you handle it that way?
Yes, sir.
As I've told everybody around, I told Laird and others, I wanted to be sure that this is properly played because it's a very significant number.
Well, it's the lowest since 1965.
Yes, and
and it's the first below 20.
That's the important thing, getting down to the... And bears out the fact that after Laos, they came down, as we said they would, and so forth and so on.
Of course, they've been coming down anyway, but this is a way that dramatizes it far more.
Okay.
Okay, I took Clifford on a little bit today.
Oh, you did, yeah.
In response to the... Yeah.
Some further questions on...
On the POWs, I indicated that those who are making statements without concrete evidence are raising false hopes, and perhaps for domestic political objectives.
Yeah, that's good.
That's what's moving.
Well done.
Okay.

Also recorded on June 9, 1971

  • 004-094 2:52 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 2:52 pm to 2:55 pm.
  • 255-037 2:53 PM · 32 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:53 pm to 2:55 pm.
  • 255-038 2:53 PM · 47 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Ronald L. Ziegler, Manolo Sanchez, Alexander P. Butterfield, White House operator, and George P. Shultz met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:53 pm to 4:35 pm.
  • 004-095 2:55 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:55 pm and 3:07 pm.
  • 004-097 3:13 PM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:13 pm to 3:14 pm.
  • 004-098 3:51 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:51 pm and 4:04 pm.
  • 004-099 4:04 PM · 13 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George P. Shultz talked on the telephone from 4:04 pm to 4:17 pm.
  • 004-100 4:17 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:17 pm and 4:38 pm.

All 58 conversations from June 9, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 004-096, June 9, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417188859). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/004-096 (accessed November 11, 2026).