Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 5 › Conversation 005-004

Nixon phone call with Hardin on Agricultural policy and International trade

Thursday, June 10, 1971 · 4:17 PM–4:22 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Hardin, Clifford M.Conversation005-004 on Tape 5 (tape position 00:03:44–00:09:01)StartThursday, June 10, 1971 at 4:17 PMEndThursday, June 10, 1971 at 4:22 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 005-004 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Secretary of Agriculture Clifford M. Hardin discussed the administration’s strategy for shipping grain to communist nations, specifically noting the logistical advantages of trading with the People's Republic of China due to West Coast longshoreman cooperation. Nixon also tasked Hardin with investigating the possibility of using biological agents, such as insects or viruses, to quietly destroy poppy crops used for opium production. Hardin agreed to explore the feasibility of these biological methods while emphasizing the extreme caution required when introducing new organisms into an environment.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Two things I hope you'll note, we went with you on grain.
Yes, sir.
We're going to take a lot of heat now from the labor guys, and I want to be darn sure that you quietly get the word around to some of our grain people that we've done this.
Now, you're not going to get an immediate reaction
But looking to the future, it has great possibilities.
At Henry's suggestion, we've called a long list of them, not to show particular glee, but just say it's constructive action.
Now, the thing to do here, too, is to get somebody.
Our guys ought to be good enough to know how to do a little trading and so forth.
The easiest place to make the first move is the Chinese, you see.
The reason being is that the west coast longshoremen will load the ships.
The east coast longshoremen will not.
So the Chinese thing is made order.
Unless we could slip a little into Russia through Vladivostok.
Oh yeah, that kind of a shipment would be fine.
Now the other thing I was calling you about is you were telling me the other day about how they developed some sort of an insect
where uh to fight another insect you know where they uh where they uh drew where it you know to to to stop a pest and it you know as I recall my memory is not clear but uh something where uh
Where, uh... What's a parasite?
It's a parasite.
Well, it died, you know what I mean, after, uh... What was it?
Do you recall?
I think I told you, but...
Yes, no, I'm sure it was you.
Either you or Borg.
You know what it is?
It's either for the fruit fly or for where the, uh...
The, uh...
One insect detection, you develop it so that it, I think it was Borlaug.
Do you remember the conversation?
I was with you when you talked to Borlaug.
I didn't remember.
There are three or four instances where parasitic insects have been brought in to wipe out another one.
That's what I mean.
In other words, you can bring in an insect to wipe out another one.
I'm not good enough of an entomologist to...
uh give you the names of those without asking someone here yeah but they develop those they develop the insect for the purpose of wiping out another one they've done it also with viruses and with bacteria now can you develop insects so you have instances where insects could be developed which for example could uh could could go in and destroy certain crops like take uh to take an opium crop poppy crop oh see what i mean uh
it would be possible why wouldn't it be wouldn't it be uh well let me tell you let me let me do some thinking about that among your people let's suppose suppose you had a project the project you in other words that uh the there must be some insects that love to eat poppies now i'd like to find out how you get those how you breed them and uh you know you see what i'm getting at yes sir they got to be very small insects so we can transport them
yeah okay uh and you want this very quietly done don't you yeah very quietly no no seriously though it is something that is just it's an intriguing idea that a fellow wrote me about and i i just he says i he says why not he says you he says your agricultural people have developed this and that and the other and he mentioned a lot of things in fact the one you told me about had to do with an insect where it uh very uh
They died after intercourse or something.
Oh, no.
Oh, I know what I told you about.
Oh, is that?
The screw worm fly.
The screw worm fly?
The cattle in southwest part of the country in Mexico.
Yeah.
And this is a case where the female breeds only once.
Yeah.
And so you sterilize the males.
Yeah.
And turn thousands of them loose.
Yeah.
And they breed with the females and then they lay sterile eggs.
You sterilize the male.
Yeah.
And then turn them loose.
That was radiation.
And you do that with radiation and turn them loose.
Yeah.
And then they mate.
And what you do is just overwhelm the population.
And then the female dies.
She lays eggs once and dies.
I see.
But the eggs are sterile.
The eggs are sterile.
I got the message.
All right, now you can do something on these poppies, okay?
All right, we'll work on it.
But this little screw worm is of great economic importance.
I know it is.
I know.
Number one's pest.
I know.
That was what you were telling me about.
We were talking about it when this other fellow was here.
We do have some cases where we brought in insects to destroy insects.
And this has to be done with the greatest of care.
Because you introduce a new one and you may have a new pest.
Right.
but insect to destroy insects but now what we're talking about is insect to destroy in other words not not a chemical but an insect you see that could destroy it could work on a poppy or a virus or something or a virus or something of that sort that's right now you're serious on this absolutely all right absolutely if but only if you can come up with something now you understand it's a possibility that is if let us suppose for example that you could get a get a country to say all right we want to knock it out and people continue to grow the darn stuff then if you could
you've got a virus that could knock this thing out, maybe that's the answer rather than an insect, of course.
Okay?
All right.
All right.
Bye.

NARA Description

On June 10, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Clifford M. Hardin talked on the telephone from 4:17 pm to 4:22 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 5-4

Date: June 10, 1971
Time: 4:17 pm - 4:22 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Clifford M. Hardin.

[See Conversation No. 516-10B]

     Administration's agricultural policies with respect to grain
         -Loading of grain to communist countries and attitudes of longshoremen
               -Henry A. Kissinger's suggestions
               -Shipments to People's Republic of China [PRC], Union of Soviet Socialist
                     Republics [USSR]
                     -Vladivostok port in the USSR

     Parasitic insects to combat insect pests
          -President's conversation with Norman E. Borlaug
          -Insects that could be bred to kill an opium crop
                 -Unknown man's letter to President
          -Screw worm fly
          -Insect or virus that could be bred to kill an opium crop

Also recorded on June 10, 1971

  • 005-002 2:53 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Hubert H. Humphrey talked on the telephone from 2:53 pm to 2:57 pm.
  • 005-003 2:57 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:57 pm and 4:17 pm.
  • 516-010 3:08 PM · 1 hr 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, Egil ("Bud") Krogh, Jr., Jeffrey Donfeld, Arnold R. Weber, Dr. Jerome H. Jaffe, Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, and Clifford M. Hardin met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:08 pm to 4:24 pm.
  • 005-005 4:22 PM · 6 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:22 pm and 6:02 pm.
  • 005-006 4:22 PM · 23 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and Peter M. Flanigan talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:22 pm and 6:02 pm.
  • 516-011 4:25 PM · 52 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, Egil ("Bud") Krogh, Jr., Peter M. Flanigan, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:25 pm to 5:18 pm.
  • 516-012 5:20 PM · 35 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Peter M. Flanigan, Stephen B. Bull, Manolo Sanchez, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:20 pm to 6:01 pm.
  • 516-015 6:01 PM · 28 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 6:01 pm and 11:00 pm.

All 24 conversations from June 10, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 005-004, June 10, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-004 (accessed October 12, 2026).