Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 5 › Conversation 005-089

Nixon phone call with Rogers on Pentagon Papers and Willy Brandt

Tuesday, June 15, 1971 · 6:44 PM–6:47 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Rogers, William P.Conversation005-089 on Tape 5 (tape position 02:42:08–02:45:49)StartTuesday, June 15, 1971 at 6:44 PMEndTuesday, June 15, 1971 at 6:47 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 005-089 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Secretary of State William P. Rogers discuss the administration's strategic response to the publication of the Pentagon Papers, specifically praising Rogers' recent press statement regarding the breach of foreign diplomatic security. The two men agree to reframe the documents as the "Kennedy-Johnson papers" to shift focus away from the current administration. Additionally, they discuss an upcoming meeting with West German Chancellor Willy Brandt and express concerns regarding the judicial handling of the temporary injunction against the New York Times by Judge Murray I. Gurfein.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yeah.
Secretary Rogers, sir.
Yeah, hello, Mr. President.
You had a long day.
I started at 8 o'clock with the congressman and I've been going like a chicken with my head cut off.
But I wanted to tell you I just got a chance to go over the press thing.
I just think you couldn't have done it better.
And I think what was particularly effective was what you said about the fact that some foreign...
governments have raised questions about the security of their own cables and that sort of thing.
Because, goddammit, it's true.
How can they wonder if we just allow a wholesale publication of declassification, I should say.
Did you know that the documents with regard to Pearl Harbor have not been declassified yet?
Mm-hmm.
Hell no.
Isn't that something?
I know.
And this thing is...
uh we can talk about somebody placing themselves above the law and all that but on this uh statement thing they my feeling is that first i cannot say anything i feel because it's in the courts i think you can solely from as a you know sure a foreign can you don't you think so sure i'll be glad to say anything would be helpful well that's right tonight could i ask one thing uh i don't know how they got the seating arrangement but uh
I really want to talk myself out with Brandt, I think, and maybe I think I'll try to, when we talk, we'll engage the three of us.
We'll just sit and, you know, talk around.
I don't know whether you're on his right or left or however.
Okay, I'll try to do the talking.
I may have other stuff to talk to him about, too, you know.
You know, I know, it's just the only subject left is Vietnam, and I want to talk about that tonight, so we'll talk a little about Vietnam.
You know, I was just listening to television.
The picture came over pretty good in television.
Oh, did it?
But, damn it, they never carry the good things.
I said, when they talked about this, McNamara Papers, I said that I was not going to get involved in passing judgment on it.
I said, we've got other things to do.
We're trying to get this nation out of war.
I said, I would hope that when President Nixon leaves office, we can have a study made of how we got the United States out of Vietnam.
And also, as I say, basically, this is a family coral leaf.
That's right.
And I think the papers could well be called the Kennedy-Johnson papers is what they are, you know.
That's right.
Not the McNamara, basically.
It's McNamara and Clifford.
Yeah, that's right.
And I've told the boys here, just call them Kennedy-Johnson, you know.
That's good.
It's really a shameful, shameful problem.
I just can't really see how the Times could do it.
Incidentally, George Hearst told Bob Finch, you know, they are the Times...
syndicate in California and he made the decision there not to print it because he considered it not in the national interest.
I thought it would be interesting.
I told Boyce to check around the other Times clients to see how many of them might have done the same thing.
That's very damn good of old George not to do that.
I hope this judge we got in New York is all right.
He granted a temporary injunction.
You know who it is?
Yeah, his name is Murray Gerfein.
I know him well.
Dewey's man, yeah.
Used to be in the office with me.
We just appointed him.
I know, but he's also pretty... Liberal?
A little liberal, and he's...
I'm sure would like to cultivate the time, so he'll have... Well, he also may be thinking of going up, too.
Yes.
And he damn well better act well.
Okay.
All right, see you later, Mr. Bennett.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On June 15, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 6:44 pm to 6:47 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-089 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 5-89

Date: June 15, 1971
Time: 6:44 pm - 6:47 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with William Rogers.

[See Conversation No. 261-10]

     President's schedule

     Pentagon Papers
          -Rogers’ press release
               -Foreign governments' concern about integrity of their communications
          -Declassification of Pearl Harbor documents
          -Administration's response

     President's schedule
          -Forthcoming meeting with Willy Brandt and Rogers
                 -Vietnam

     Pentagon Papers
          -Rogers’ previous public statement
          -John F. Kennedy-Lyndon B. Johnson papers
               -Robert S. McNamara
               -Clark M. Clifford
          -George Hurst's conversation with Robert H. Finch
          -Judge Murray I. Gurfein and temporary injunction
               -Thomas E. Dewey

Also recorded on June 15, 1971

  • 005-086 6:35 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 6:35 pm to 6:38 pm.
  • 261-008 6:35 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:35 pm to 6:38 pm.
  • 005-087 6:38 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:44 pm.
  • 005-088 6:38 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:44 pm.
  • 261-009 6:38 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:44 pm.
  • 261-010 6:44 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:44 pm to 6:47 pm.
  • 005-090 6:48 PM · 56 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield talked on the telephone from 6:48 pm to 6:49 pm.
  • 261-011 6:48 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:48 pm to 6:49 pm.

All 52 conversations from June 15, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 005-089, June 15, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-089 (accessed October 12, 2026).