{"conversationCode":"005-092","tapeNumber":5,"conversationNumber":92,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-005-092","startDateTime":"1971-06-16T13:02:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-06-16T21:10:00.000Z","startDate":"16-Jun-1971","startTime":"9:02 AM","endDate":"16-Jun-1971","endTime":"5:10 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Kissinger, Henry A.; Bahr, Egon;","description":"On June 16, 1971, Henry A. Kissinger and Egon Bahr talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:02 am and 5:10 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-092 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 5-92\n\nDate: June 16, 1971\nTime: Unknown between 9:02 am and 5:10 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nHenry A. Kissinger talked with Egon Bahr.\n\n[Conversation partly in German]\n\n[See Conversation No. 522-2B]\n\n     Willy Brandt's toast at White House function, June 15\n          -Kissinger's conversation with President\n          -Brandt's domestic situation\n          -Vietnam remarks\n\n          -Brandt's forthcoming statements to Senate Foreign Relations Committee and press\n          -President's reaction\n          -Preparation\n          -Intent\n          -Brandt's possible statements regarding US-West German cooperation\n\n     Kissinger's schedule\n          -Meeting with [David] Kenneth Rush, Bahr","filename":["005-092.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:47:07","tapeEnd":"02:51:11","participantsList":["Kissinger, Henry A.","Bahr, Egon","Kissinger, Henry A.","Bahr, Egon"],"prevCode":"005-091","nextCode":"005-093","transcript":[{"start":0.2,"end":1.4,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":1.62,"end":2.08,"text":"Dr. Kissinger?"},{"start":2.1,"end":4.91,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":5.31,"end":5.71,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":5.73,"end":6.55,"text":"Yeah, Henry?"},{"start":6.57,"end":8.25,"text":"Egon, how are you?"},{"start":8.91,"end":20.52,"text":"Egon, I spoke with the president and I wanted, let me say it in English because it's a little easier for me."},{"start":20.99,"end":28.43,"text":"He, I'll be quite honest with you because sometimes psychological things make an impact."},{"start":28.87,"end":45.45,"text":"He had the impression that yesterday the chancellor in his toast was really playing very much for his domestic situation without saying one graceful thing about, you know, his reception and what support you've been getting from us."},{"start":48.02,"end":54.41,"text":"And he felt that the remarks about Vietnam were certainly very ambiguous."},{"start":54.81,"end":59.11,"text":"You know, we didn't ask you to say anything about it one way or the other."},{"start":60.33,"end":78.91,"text":"And I just wondered, Egon, as a friend, whether it wouldn't be good if he, when he met with the press today and with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he could make some positive statements about the relationship that has developed."},{"start":78.93,"end":81.63,"text":"Oh, darf ich deutsch sprechen?"},{"start":81.65,"end":82.71,"text":"Ja, bitte."},{"start":82.89,"end":83.52,"text":"Ich bin ganz entsetzt."},{"start":84.17,"end":86.23,"text":"I don't know if it's true."},{"start":86.25,"end":90.72,"text":"I can only say what the impression of the president was."},{"start":90.74,"end":93.76,"text":"I'm a little distressed about it."},{"start":93.96,"end":101.33,"text":"We have discussed this table talk for a long time."},{"start":101.35,"end":113.91,"text":"And the chancellor says, first of all, if I mention this Vietnam story, which was not meant in doubt,"},{"start":114.44,"end":130.34,"text":"And then he said, if we look back at this year, that there has been a particularly intense collaboration, I hope that he does not misunderstand that this is a reference to the canal."},{"start":131.98,"end":138.99,"text":"And I said to him, no, I think that all the people who sit there will understand that very generally."},{"start":139.01,"end":147.56,"text":"He said, hopefully the president doesn't misunderstand that I want to show you very intimately to the outside."},{"start":148.04,"end":149.07,"text":"Yes."},{"start":149.09,"end":149.29,"text":"Yes?"},{"start":149.33,"end":154.5,"text":"So that was exactly the opposite story."},{"start":154.52,"end":154.7,"text":"Yes."},{"start":155.16,"end":156.82,"text":"Okay, whatever it is,"},{"start":157.22,"end":162.19,"text":"You know, I can only say what the impression was."},{"start":162.21,"end":182.4,"text":"And what I would recommend, you know, as a friend, and this is not in any sense official, if the Chancellor could find an opportunity while he's in this country and talking to the press, to make clear that we have been helpful in the negotiations and in your general policy."},{"start":182.42,"end":182.54,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":183.66,"end":192.96,"text":"and that we have been working together well, it would remove this slight ambiguity that he detected yesterday."},{"start":194.26,"end":194.62,"text":"Aha."},{"start":194.64,"end":206.69,"text":"If you talk to him, you don't tell him that this impression is objectively wrong, even if he may exist subjectively and certainly not deliberately."},{"start":207.81,"end":211.74,"text":"I will see him in a few minutes, and you can be sure I'll make this point."},{"start":212.14,"end":214.16,"text":"And I will see you and Rush later today."},{"start":214.22,"end":215,"text":"Yes."},{"start":215.04,"end":220.39,"text":"Rush told me he might come later."},{"start":220.87,"end":223.59,"text":"Oh, yes, with the Chancellor."},{"start":223.61,"end":224.59,"text":"Yes, yes."},{"start":224.61,"end":226.35,"text":"Not you?"},{"start":226.37,"end":228.22,"text":"I don't have to."},{"start":230.18,"end":230.44,"text":"Good."},{"start":230.46,"end":231.6,"text":"Then at 5.15 a.m.?"},{"start":231.62,"end":233.8,"text":"5.15 a.m."},{"start":234.21,"end":234.93,"text":"Good, Egon."},{"start":234.95,"end":239.53,"text":"And this we treat as a private conversation between us."},{"start":239.61,"end":239.94,"text":"Good."},{"start":240,"end":241.24,"text":"Many thanks."},{"start":241.5,"end":242.53,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"Henry Kissinger and Egon Bahr discussed President Nixon's dissatisfaction with West German Chancellor Willy Brandt’s toast at a recent White House function, which the President perceived as focused on domestic politics and ambiguous regarding Vietnam. Kissinger urged Bahr to encourage Brandt to make more positive, public statements regarding U.S.-West German cooperation during his upcoming meetings with the press and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Bahr agreed to convey these concerns to the Chancellor, framing the request as a private diplomatic effort to clarify the relationship and dispel any lingering misunderstandings.","topics":["US-West German relations","Willy Brandt","Vietnam War","Diplomatic communications","Henry Kissinger","Egon Bahr"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T21:58:30.150Z"},"topicSlugs":["us-west-german-relations","willy-brandt","vietnam-war","diplomatic-communications","henry-kissinger","egon-bahr"],"audioDurationSec":243,"audioFiles":[{"file":"005-092.mp3","bytes":2802321,"durationSec":242.93,"bitrate":92284,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:21.078Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:34.283Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/005-092.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-092","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/5/conversation-005-092","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}