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Conversation 005-101

TapeTape 5StartWednesday, June 16, 1971 at 8:22 PMEndWednesday, June 16, 1971 at 8:25 PMTape start time03:00:44Tape end time03:03:55ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ehrlichman, John D.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On June 16, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 8:22 pm to 8:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-101 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 5-101

Date: June 16, 1971
Time: 8:22 pm - 8:25 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See Conversation No. 258-26]

     New York Times publication of Pentagon Papers
         -Memo regarding grand jury indictment
         -Ehrlichman 's possible call to John N. Mitchell

          -Legal ramifications
          -Robert T. Mardian
          -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] investigation of source of Pentagon Papers
               leak
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ehrlichman.
Yeah, John, I was just reading the memorandum with regard to the grand jury thing.
Have you talked to Mitchell about it?
No, I haven't.
I thought I'd better clear with you first.
Yeah.
Because I didn't know what you might have been talking with him about.
No, I haven't talked to him about it, no.
I'll give him a call tonight.
Fine.
Well, what, how does, your thought is...
I mean, it isn't a question, I mean, the delay is one thing.
I think in terms of reconsidering whether we go ahead with it, of course, is something else.
That's something that has profound implications.
I understand.
It just occurred to me today as I read the pleadings that there was a possibility that we could get the kind of an adverse finding on the merits in this case.
hearing that we really ought to have a chance to take a look at.
If we want to launch that grand jury and then get an adverse ruling from the court and stop it, then I think we've got a bad... Well, what does it really get down to?
If you delay it, does that mean the times goes ahead and
The temporary restraining order apparently applies for four days only, is that right?
It expires by its terms Saturday at noon, or 1 o'clock.
So they'd go ahead and print?
They'd print the Sunday edition anyway, regardless of what the grand jury did.
Yeah.
I'm not too concerned about what they print now.
The point is, you don't want to have an adverse...
I don't want to appear to be calling off a grand jury in mid-flight.
Right, right.
That makes a lot of sense.
Well, have you talked to Marty about it?
No, I'll give John Mitchell a call.
Whoever you think is really in charge, you know, you might call and chat a bit about it.
All right.
I agree with you.
It's important not to have an adverse court ruling right in the face of all this.
But we have to go, naturally, we have to go forward on the, one way or another, on the,
Not only on the Times, but on the person who... Obviously, the FBI thing can go forward, I understand.
Right.
That is going forward, is it not?
Right.
That's very vigorously underway.
Well, don't you have to... Now, on that, does that require a grand jury, or how does that...
It would, you see, but there isn't any reason why they can't go ahead and finish their investigation and then convene the grand jury on Monday instead of on Thursday.
And then you'll know what the court did on the TRO.
In effect, but the Times...
go ahead and print.
Sure.
If we get an adverse ruling.
I think the chances are that the court will grant an injunction pending a trial on the merits.
Yeah.
Or he'll extend the TRO one or the other, but that's just a hunch because the issues are very complex.
I'd be very surprised if he could dispose of them Friday or Saturday.
Yeah, they are complex, I know.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, you...
I'll talk with him.
You should have talked to John.
Right.
Kick it around.
Okay.
Fine.
Thank you.
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