Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 005-113
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1971 at 6:38 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-113

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] Any foreign trip of mine, they're never to be on in the future.
[0:04] Just cut off.
[0:06] Yeah.
[0:06] Mr. Coulson, sir.
[0:07] Yeah.
[0:08] Yes, sir, Mr. President.
[0:09] What success has Bryce had, if any, with Johnson?
[0:12] Now, this is terribly important.
[0:14] Oh, I think it is.
[0:15] Johnson's got to step up to this, and he's got to step up to it on the basis that there's a hell of a lot going to come out on a lot of other things, too.
[0:22] Well, that's right.
[0:22] He's got to go to the country.
[0:23] If I step up, he's got to.
[0:25] Well, I think Bryce called.
[0:28] He got Mike Manitos on the phone with him.
[0:31] Mike was very close to LBJ, as you know, and they called Tom Johnson.
[0:36] Johnson called back, and they passed their message on that they felt very strongly that he had to defend himself and hold a press conference, that his silence could be misinterpreted.
[0:45] Right.
[0:46] Particularly after what Hubert said.
[0:47] That horrible thing.
[0:48] That's right.
[0:51] Why don't they tell him it'll help his book?
[0:54] That's right.
[0:55] Good God.
[0:56] They got a call back and they said that Rostow had been working with President Johnson on this and that Rostow was against his saying anything while the case was pending.
[1:06] No, the case.
[1:07] Oh, no, no, no.
[1:08] That's just an excuse.
[1:09] It's an excuse.
[1:10] Rostow just doesn't want to get him involved and put all the blame on us.
[1:13] Exactly.
[1:14] That's all.
[1:15] Harlow and Manitose called back again at 4 o'clock this afternoon and they said that they felt
[1:20] as friends of LBJ's, that it was imperative that he defend himself immediately and that he...
[1:27] It will not affect the case.
[1:28] That's right.
[1:30] He's been condemned in the public press right now.
[1:33] He is a villain.
[1:35] If he doesn't defend himself, he'll go down in history.
[1:38] And by God, I'll quit defending him.
[1:40] If he doesn't get this message across, if he doesn't defend himself, I can no longer defend him.
[1:45] Yes, sir.
[1:46] I want a...
[1:47] Have you got that down?
[1:48] Yes, sir.
[1:48] He must be told that I cannot defend him because tomorrow in Rochester I've got to defend him, but I can't do it if he won't defend himself.
[1:55] I think that's a very good point.
[1:57] Bryce can get that across to him tomorrow.
[1:59] Bryce is going to call him personally in the morning.
[2:03] Give him overnight to think about it.
[2:04] Got to make it clear.
[2:06] Tell Bryce to call him tonight.
[2:07] He's got to call him tonight.
[2:09] He's got to get ready.
[2:10] He's got to say, look, the president's going to Rochester tomorrow.
[2:12] He's going to speak out on this thing.
[2:14] But the president cannot defend you unless you'll defend yourself.
[2:19] All right.
[2:19] That will suggest to LBJ that you've talked to Bryce, but that's all right.
[2:23] That's all right.
[2:24] That's all right.
[2:25] That I've talked to him and I think he's got to defend himself.
[2:28] I'm willing to, I'm going to defend him, but he's got to defend himself or I can't do it.
[2:32] I can't sit up here and take the brunt.
[2:34] of all this without his defending himself.
[2:36] Nobody else is speaking up.
[2:38] Clifford isn't speaking up.
[2:39] McNamara isn't speaking up.
[2:41] Bundy is cracking him.
[2:42] Humphrey is slaughtering him.
[2:44] Muskie is killing him.
[2:45] Rusk is refusing to talk.
[2:47] Teddy Kennedy is saying, go ahead.
[2:48] Rusk isn't talking?
[2:50] What does Teddy say?
[2:51] Teddy says, I don't mind.
[2:52] Go ahead and release all the papers involving my brother.
[2:54] It won't bother me.
[2:55] Let history come out.
[2:56] Let the chips fall, he said.
[2:58] Yeah, because he knows damn well the New York Times will suppress the type on Teddy that will hurt him.
[3:06] That's right, exactly.
[3:06] And on his brother.
[3:07] On Jack.
[3:08] Son of a bitch.
[3:10] It's really a cruel thing, but we're going to get out some papers.
[3:13] I'd rather act to Henry.
[3:15] He's going to get out the stuff on the murder of Diem, and we're going to put it out.
[3:20] Henry has that, and we should find a way to get it out at the right time.
[3:23] Well, he doesn't have it.
[3:24] He has it, but he won't put it out.
[3:26] He's embarrassed.
[3:28] Well, there'll be ways that will get out.
[3:30] I heard today, which is strictly grapevine, that the Washington Post had all of this and intended to start publishing, so that may well happen.
[3:39] On the next chapters, the next sequels.
[3:46] One way or another, that will get out, Mr. President, I'm sure.
[3:49] We'll see that it does.
[3:50] What a depraved thing that these papers would just...
[3:56] publish things without regard to the national interest.
[3:59] Well, it is.
[4:02] The Teamsters are seriously considering, this is very off the record, but they're seriously considering stopping delivery of the New York Times.
[4:13] Oh God, if they would, that would be great.
[4:15] Wouldn't that be marvelous?
[4:16] Well, they're giving it some very serious thought, and that just might have a hell of an effect if their argument is if the New York Times can judge what is national security, so can the Teamsters.
[4:27] But tell them and let them know that, you know, in a confident way that
[4:34] Nothing will be more appreciated.
[4:36] But believe me, there is nothing that could be more effective.
[4:40] I mean, stop these bastards.
[4:42] Let them know that the folks are not on their side.
[4:44] Well, that would show them that the people just aren't going to put up with this.
[4:48] I think we have a chance of getting them to do it.
[4:50] They seem pretty receptive.
[4:52] But now we've got to get Johnson to go on the press conference.
[4:56] I'm not going to...
[4:57] I can't continue to defend him.
[4:59] I'm defending him.
[5:00] No, I agree.
[5:00] Connolly said in his NSC today, he says, they're blaming Johnson.
[5:04] He's down the curtain now.
[5:05] They're blaming the president.
[5:06] They don't know who the hell's president.
[5:08] That's correct.
[5:08] And this thing has not gotten across.
[5:11] You know, Ziegler said it and everybody else, but nobody's gotten it across that it all happened to Johnson.
[5:16] This is not us.
[5:17] Well, exactly.
[5:18] And that's exactly why this morning I got very worked up over this and talked to Bryce.
[5:22] Because it seems to me that if Johnson starts defending it, it at least shifts the focus back to the Johnson administration.
[5:27] He's got to defend it.
[5:29] He's got to defend it.
[5:30] Or, put it this way to Johnson, either he defends himself or I have no choice
[5:38] but to
[5:40] but to let the chips fall where they may, just use those terms.
[5:46] I have no choice.
[5:47] He's got to defend himself because I cannot do it.
[5:51] I cannot carry this load unless he will do it himself.
[5:53] He's got to defend himself.
[5:54] I don't want to blame him for the war.
[5:56] I don't want to blame him for these decisions.
[5:58] But if he doesn't, I have no choice but to go in the other direction.
[6:03] Put it that way.
[6:04] I kind of think that'll have an impact on him because I'm sure, according to Bryce, he is terribly upset.
[6:09] The Texas paper's
[6:10] are giving it very heavy play, and he's apparently reading the papers and throwing them around the office and just upset as hell.
[6:17] But he's got to say, the president wants to defend you.
[6:20] I defended him, I'll defend him with regard to getting into the work.
[6:24] I defend the fact that he, whatever he knew that he wasn't lying, I don't think he lied, I think this is just a contingency plan, but if he will not defend himself, I will have no choice
[6:35] but also to refuse to defend him, and I don't want to do that.
[6:38] But he's got to step up and defend himself Saturday, and I've got to know before I appear before the press on Friday afternoon.
[6:45] Now, I've got to know by tonight.
[6:47] Now, you tell Bryce to get off his ass and do this now.
[6:49] I'll do it, and then I'll get the message back to you, sir.