Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 5 › Conversation 005-135
Nixon, Ehrlichman & MacGregor on Congressional relations and Spiro Agnew
Wednesday, June 23, 1971 · 9:31 AM–11:03 AM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min
AI Summary
John Ehrlichman and Clark MacGregor coordinate the logistics of delivering sensitive documents from the President to Congressional leadership. The conversation addresses confusion regarding communication with Speaker Carl Albert and Vice President Spiro Agnew, as the administration prepares to bypass traditional procedures. Ehrlichman instructs MacGregor to exclude the Vice President from the distribution process, emphasizing that the delivery to Mike Mansfield and joint leadership is an extraordinary procedure.
- Congressional relations
- Spiro Agnew
- Document transmission
- Executive procedure
- Mike Mansfield
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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That was John Ehrlichman.
Would you give me Clark McGregor, please?
Yes, sir.
Clark McGregor, is that you?
That's John Ehrlichman.
Is he there?
Yes, just a moment, sir.
Hello, I just talked with the speaker.
He's a little confused by some telephone message from your office.
about parliamentarians and storage of documents and so forth.
It isn't clear to me, John, whether we're transmitting two sets of documents or one set.
No, one.
And how is it to be handled?
Well, I'll... Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
I'll fill you in when I get through here.
But the point is that he had some message from your office that had him badly hung up, and I told him just to disregard it.
I don't know...
how any message from this office could have held him, had him badly hung up.
I haven't talked to him at all.
Well, no, you talked to, somebody talked to a secretary in his office about documents being transmitted to a parliamentarian.
I didn't talk to him.
I talked to the vice president this morning.
He's the presiding officer of the United States Senate.
What did you tell him?
I told him that the president was considering.
I was having breakfast with Mike Mansfield this morning and was considering an action with respect to the documents involving the Congress.
And it might well involve the presiding officers of the House and the Senate.
And as the presiding officer of the Senate, I wanted to make sure that he was not embarrassed by being out of town.
He said, oh, I'll be here, Clark.
And he said, but if you've got any questions about the handling of documents, we've got a regular procedure for that, and I'll have Walter Mote call you.
And Walter, he called, Vice President then called Walter Mote, who called me.
Now, Mote may have well also called somebody in the Speaker's office.
Did not come from our office.
I have not talked to the Speaker or anybody in the Speaker's office about the President's announcement.
Oh, he used your name.
In any event, Jerry Ford's not available, and so I've got to call in for him, and I'll talk with him just as soon as he's available.
But Mansfield is going to contact these people and have a meeting.
He's not going to contact the Vice President.
He's just not on the list.
The Vice President, of course, is the presiding officer of the United States Senate.
Well, that's what the Constitution says.
And the transmittal of documents does go to the Vice President's office.
Well, except in this case, the President told Mansfield that the transmission would go to Mansfield and the joint leadership of the two houses.
Um...
Because it is not like a congressional message.
I appreciate it.
It's an extraordinary procedure.
It is an extraordinary situation.
So you better untrack the vice president.
I'll call him right away.
But they asked me questions about whether there's one set of documents, two set of documents, and so forth.
And I said, I don't know about that.
Well, I haven't any information about that.
I think you better get unplugged from him because he's not in the chain here.
Well, I just... All right, I know of no procedure for the president to transmit documents to the United States Senate and bypass the presiding officer.
We're about to make one.
Okay.
All right.
NARA Description
On June 23, 1971, John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Clark MacGregor talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:31 am and 11:03 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-135 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 5-135
Date: June 23, 1971
Time: Unknown between 9:31 am and 11:03 am
Location: White House Telephone
John D. Ehrlichman talked with the White House operator; the President can be heard in the
background.
[See Conversation No. 527-16D]
Call to Clark MacGregor
Ehrlichman talked with an unknown woman at an unknown time after 9:31 am.
MacGregor's location
Ehrlichman talked with MacGregor at an unknown time after 9:31 am.
Delivery of documents to Congress
-Logistics
-Ehrlichman's conversation with Carl Albert
-Conversation between Vice President Spiro T. Agnew and MacGregor
-President's meeting with Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
-Walter L. Mote conversation with MacGregor
-Ehrlichman's forthcoming conversation with Gerald R. Ford
-Mansfield's forthcoming meeting
-Necessity of contacting Agnew
-Transmission of documents directly to leadership of Congress
-Transmission of documents to Mansfield and joint leadership of Congress
-Call to AgnewAlso recorded on June 23, 1971
- 527-014 9:10 AM · 37 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:10 am and 9:14 am.
- 527-015 9:10 AM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:10 am and 9:14 am.
- 527-016 9:14 AM · 50 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, unknown person(s) [Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield's secretary], Henry A. Kissinger, Carl B. Albert, White House operator, unknown person(s), Clark MacGregor, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:14 am to 10:12 am.
- 005-133 9:22 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Mary Jane Delbazo talked on the telephone from 9:22 am to 9:25 am.
- 005-134 9:31 AM · 2 min — John D. Ehrlichman, Carl B. Albert, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:31 am and 11:03 am.
- 527-011 10:12 AM · 50 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, James D. Hodgson, Malcolm R. Lovell, Jr., Melvin R. Laird, Maurice H. Stans, Rufus H. Wilson, John D. Harper, William Woodward, James F. Oates, John F. Evans, Jr., Melvin Stephens, Howard Russell, Henry A. Kissinger, Ronald L. Ziegler, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:12 am and 11:40 am.
- 005-136 11:03 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 11:03 am to 11:04 am.
- 005-137 11:04 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:04 am and 2:39 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 005-135, June 23, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-135 (accessed October 22, 2026).