{"conversationCode":"006-021","tapeNumber":6,"conversationNumber":21,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-006-021","startDateTime":"1971-06-29T15:22:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-06-29T15:27:00.000Z","startDate":"29-Jun-1971","startTime":"11:22 AM","endDate":"29-Jun-1971","endTime":"11:27 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.;","description":"On June 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 11:22 am to 11:27 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 006-021 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 6-21\n\nDate: June 29, 1971\nTime: 11:22 am - 11:27 am\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with John N. Mitchell.\n\n[See Conversation No. 530-008]\n\n     Pentagon Papers\n          -J. Edgar Hoover\n          -Questioning of Louis Marx\n          -President's forthcoming address at Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] graduation\n          -Daniel Ellsberg case\n          -Possible dissension in FBI\n          -Hoover\n          -Hoover's possible conversations\n          -Mitchell, President\n          -Ellsberg case\n          -FBI dissension\n          -Ellsberg\n          -Federal prosecution\n                -Precedents, public impact\n          -Mitchell's forthcoming conversation with Hoover","filename":["006-021.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:15:47","tapeEnd":"00:19:51","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Mitchell, John N."],"prevCode":"006-020","nextCode":"006-022","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":2.35,"text":"Hello."},{"start":2.77,"end":3.59,"text":"Yes, Mr. President."},{"start":4.15,"end":10.98,"text":"John, the way I feel about this case is that, first, in terms of discipline, Hoover is right."},{"start":11.12,"end":13,"text":"In terms of his decision, he was wrong."},{"start":14.34,"end":18.59,"text":"You know what I mean about not questioning Marx because of personal considerations."},{"start":19.03,"end":29.62,"text":"But in terms of our overall situation, he just cannot, and I really feel that you have to tell him this, he cannot, with my going tomorrow to address the FBI graduation,"},{"start":30.07,"end":40.22,"text":"And also, with the Ellsberg case being the issue, he cannot take anything which causes dissension within the FBI ranks."},{"start":40.36,"end":42.06,"text":"It's just going to raise holy hell."},{"start":42.56,"end":47.69,"text":"They'll say this crotchety old man did it again, see."},{"start":48.21,"end":49.19,"text":"That's my feeling about it."},{"start":49.71,"end":51.59,"text":"Well, I don't think there's any doubt about it, Mr. President."},{"start":51.63,"end":54.64,"text":"I think this might be the last straw as far as he's concerned."},{"start":54.66,"end":55,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":55.53,"end":61.38,"text":"And this, of course, as you point out, he does have a paper case."},{"start":61.91,"end":63.09,"text":"Sure."},{"start":63.25,"end":72.71,"text":"The only question that I had in my mind, whether he will take this from me or whether you have to talk to him about it, that's the only question I have."},{"start":75.93,"end":77.58,"text":"Well, I'll tell you what I'd like to do."},{"start":77.96,"end":99.61,"text":"Why don't you just say that it came to my attention, that I've heard about it, that I feel very strongly, I'll be glad to talk to him about it, but I understand the disciplinary thing, but I think the primary consideration is we must not have anything with regard to Ellsberg to reflect on Edgar Hoover, and he just has got to find a way to handle it that does not do that."},{"start":100.03,"end":100.69,"text":"All right, sir."},{"start":100.71,"end":103.83,"text":"And just tell him that, and then if it's needed for me to call, I'll back it up."},{"start":104.17,"end":104.99,"text":"I'll back it up."},{"start":105.49,"end":106.25,"text":"You tell him."},{"start":106.27,"end":107.63,"text":"If you tell him, I'll talk to the president."},{"start":107.67,"end":115.95,"text":"Look, Edgar, he doesn't want to embarrass you in a disciplinary matter where he is overruled, the director, but he feels very strongly."},{"start":116.41,"end":129.27,"text":"He's coming over there to the FBI, you know, and after all, and he knows that discipline is important, but he feels very strongly that we must not have the Ellsberg thing be a reason for dissension in the Bureau."},{"start":129.29,"end":130.85,"text":"That could raise holy hell."},{"start":131.67,"end":132.51,"text":"Could that be all right?"},{"start":132.55,"end":133,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":133.24,"end":133.78,"text":"I'm going to try it."},{"start":133.94,"end":135.84,"text":"We'll try it that way and see how it flies."},{"start":135.92,"end":141.61,"text":"I would hope that he doesn't blow his stack and leave the fold."},{"start":141.69,"end":142.83,"text":"I don't believe he will."},{"start":143.07,"end":144.79,"text":"Well, if he does now, I'll be ready."},{"start":145.07,"end":146.37,"text":"I'll be ready to talk to him."},{"start":146.39,"end":147.13,"text":"All right, sir."},{"start":147.28,"end":147.86,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":147.98,"end":152.34,"text":"But I just say that we've got to keep our eye on the main ball."},{"start":152.36,"end":153.62,"text":"The main ball is Ellsberg."},{"start":154.19,"end":155.55,"text":"We've got to get this son of a bitch."},{"start":156.37,"end":161.28,"text":"And, you know, I was talking to somebody over here yesterday, I mean, one of our"},{"start":161.98,"end":168.99,"text":"the PR types, and they're saying, well, maybe we ought to drop the case that the Supreme Court doesn't sustain and so forth."},{"start":169.05,"end":170.27,"text":"And I said, hell no."},{"start":170.95,"end":172.17,"text":"I mean, you can't do that."},{"start":172.83,"end":190.35,"text":"You can't be in a position of having, as I said this morning, we can't be in a position of ever allowing, just because some guy's going to be a martyr, of allowing a fellow to get away with this kind of wholesale thievery, or otherwise it's going to happen all over the government."},{"start":190.82,"end":191.44,"text":"Don't you agree?"},{"start":191.64,"end":191.88,"text":"Quite."},{"start":192.18,"end":196.04,"text":"I think that we're just going to have to do this, otherwise we lose all control."},{"start":196.09,"end":199.57,"text":"And let me say, too, don't figure that PR is too bad, either."},{"start":199.69,"end":200.85,"text":"It can turn around the other way."},{"start":200.87,"end":202.41,"text":"People don't like people that are thieves."},{"start":202.81,"end":207.64,"text":"All the people have to do is look at this guy on television and his name and so forth."},{"start":207.72,"end":209.74,"text":"They've got a hell of a lot going for you."},{"start":209.84,"end":213.48,"text":"If you will handle it, but I'll be here if I'm needed."},{"start":213.58,"end":216.49,"text":"I feel it's very important not to allow anything now."},{"start":216.53,"end":218.27,"text":"We've got to have a united front on Ellsberg."},{"start":218.35,"end":219.31,"text":"That's the main thing."},{"start":219.9,"end":222.16,"text":"Do you think that can work with him or not?"},{"start":222.24,"end":224.83,"text":"I think it will, particularly coming from you."},{"start":225.75,"end":230.78,"text":"Just say that I heard about it and I'm coming over to make this strong statement on the Bureau tomorrow."},{"start":230.8,"end":231.04,"text":"Okay."},{"start":231.32,"end":231.9,"text":"Very good, sir."},{"start":232.04,"end":232.6,"text":"Will do."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Attorney General John Mitchell consulted on how to handle potential internal dissension within the FBI regarding the Daniel Ellsberg case. Nixon directed Mitchell to instruct FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to avoid any actions that could publicly compromise the Bureau's unity, particularly ahead of the President’s scheduled address at the FBI graduation. The conversation emphasized the administration's firm resolve to prosecute Ellsberg for the Pentagon Papers leak to prevent future government personnel from committing similar acts of theft.","topics":["Pentagon Papers","Daniel Ellsberg","J. Edgar Hoover","FBI","Federal prosecution","Internal administration policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T22:07:36.098Z"},"topicSlugs":["pentagon-papers","daniel-ellsberg","j-edgar-hoover","fbi","federal-prosecution","internal-administration-policy"],"audioDurationSec":233,"audioFiles":[{"file":"006-021.mp3","bytes":5588919,"durationSec":232.77,"bitrate":192085,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:21.079Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/006-021.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/006-021","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/6/conversation-006-021","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}