Conversation 006-084

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.

Edgar?

I wanted to tell you that I was so damn mad when that Supreme Court had to come down.

First, they didn't like their decision, but unbelievable, wasn't it?

It was unbelievable.

You know, those clowns we've got on there, I'll tell you, I hope I outlive the bastards.

Well, I hope you do, too.

I mean, politically, too, because we've got to change that court.

There's no question about that whatsoever.

I thought it was a possibility of a five to four.

Yeah.

You know, I thought we ought to get white.

What's the matter with him?

I don't know.

Well, of course, we're the white.

It's an old Kennedy crowd.

Right.

But then the other one, no.

What in the hell is the matter with Stewart?

Well, Stewart is a very wishy-washy individual.

He switches from one side to the other.

And I wasn't surprised that on this thing he switched.

Well, I suppose he's affected by the Georgetown thing.

But what I was going to say is that...

The day we went over to your place, and I was trying to...

It made the news, all right.

It made the news.

But the point is, if it hadn't been for that stinking court decision, we'd have been the lead story, you know.

We'd have been the lead story.

And it should have been.

Your remarks were simply wonderful, I thought.

Well, I thought it was good to lay it on the line with those fellows.

And you know that line that the ear of permissiveness is in there?

And you notice I thought it was really great when I said...

And I hope that your people get this one down, because in the 23 years that I've known the director, that he has never served the party.

He has always served his country.

That sort of summed it up, didn't it?

It did.

And I ordered today that a copy of your speech came over from the White House today.

I ordered that it be printed in our national law enforcement bulletin, which goes to about 1,500 people.

15,000 police departments in the country.

Oh, that's fine.

Well, I wanted to go there, but it got a good play, and I was glad that we could give it a shot.

Well, I deeply appreciate what you did, because it certainly was wonderful of you to do it.

Yeah, well, I wanted to.

I know you may have wanted to, but it was wonderful to do it at a time when they'd been shooting from all sides, you know.

Oh, heck.

As far as I'm concerned, you know, one thing I was going to ask you, a lot of people have a feeling that I ought to, not a lot, they're all mixed as a matter of fact, some people think that now that this court has acted that I ought to make a statement about the freedom of the press and that we are trying to censor them and so forth.

My inclination, whatever is worth it, is not to say so.

I think you're right.

I kind of think I should stay out.

But what's your public relations judgment on it, Edgar?

My public relations judgment, Mr. President, is that you should remain absolutely silent about it.

You would, huh?

I would.

Now, you don't think that's any great problem that they...

They've been, you know, naturally been charging that we have been trying to keep the press from printing the truth about the war.

I don't think that's involved because, as a matter of fact, these papers don't harm you one bit.

No, actually, the stories in the Post and Time this morning were all about Kennedy and Diem.

Kennedy, he was the one who started it, and then Lyndon Johnson escalated it.

And then you inherited it, and you have brought it down.

You never sent an additional man in there, but you brought it down.

And I think what they're trying to do is to bait you into taking a position that the freedom of the press ought not be to that extent.

And I think we ought to be awful careful what we do in this case of this man Ellsberg.

Because there again, they're going to make a martyr out of him.

All of the press of the country are going to come to the front that he's a martyr.

And when you look at what the Supreme Court has now said, I doubt whether we're going to be able to get a conviction of him.

I hope so, but I doubt it.

We've got a good, strong case on him.

And his first wife testified very vigorously against him.

And it's a good, strong case.

Well, I'd like to check some of the other people around him.

That's the others.

I think there's a conspiracy involved here.

This fellow Sheehan of the New York Times is involved.

This fellow Jack Anderson here in Washington, that skunk that we have here.

Is he in it, too?

Oh, yeah, he's in it.

He was at the Post and had copies made.

I saw her on the TV last night, Mrs. Graham.

I would have thought she was about 85 years old.

She's only about, I think, something like 57.

Oh, no.

I know that.

And I had an idea she was a great deal older when I looked at her last night.

She's aged terribly.

She's a terrible old bag.

Oh, she's an old bitch in my estimation.

That's right.

But I think from your point of view, it would be very ill-advised.

You don't think I should say anything at this point?

I don't think you should say anything.

Just let it cool off.

Let the papers come out and let them reflect on whoever they reflect.

What they want to print, it doesn't reflect upon you.

You had nothing to do with all of this.

I had nothing.

Nothing of it was about me, you know.

Not at all.

And therefore, if you enter it now, on the grounds of freedom of the press or anything of that, then it's the very thing that the enemies of the administration want to do, is to divert the attack upon you, and not upon Kennedy and not upon Johnson.

Now, of course, I think what's going to happen, I think Lyndon Johnson will ultimately burst forth himself.

Yeah.

Because...

He ought to.

You know, he's a tough individual.

He ought to defend himself.

I think he will.

Yeah, well... And I think for that reason, your silence would be just the thing...

Well, I don't certainly plan to say anything until I have a chance to look over the weekend and see what the... Well, I waited very carefully because I think they're trying to bait you into taking the position.

This fellow Stanton, who's now going to be cited by the Congress for contempt of court, he shot his mouth off today, and I think the House of Representatives will cite him for contempt.

Oh, boy.

Yeah.

But let that be his battle, not yours.

I'm not going to have nothing to do with him.

That's the House.

It's up to them.

Let them have their fun.

And they had a unanimous vote in the committee.

It wasn't divided.

And I think that's up for him to fight out.

He talked about the opinion of yesterday as being in his favor and so forth.

It has nothing to do with what the House is doing.

Well, the opinion yesterday had nothing to do with the Pentagon.

They had lied about the Pentagon, as they've lied about so many things.

CBS is one of the worst networks on the circuit today.

But I would certainly give awful careful thought by just remaining silent.

Well, I'm glad to get that advice.

I'm going to be meeting in about an hour with these guys, and I'll have that in mind.

Fine.

Well, good to talk to you.

I want to thank you again.

Well, I appreciate the cufflinks.

It was wonderful.

I appreciate the cufflinks.

Thank you.

Goodbye.