{"conversationCode":"006-113","tapeNumber":6,"conversationNumber":113,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-006-113","startDateTime":"1971-07-02T23:13:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-07-02T23:14:00.000Z","startDate":"2-Jul-1971","startTime":"7:13 PM","endDate":"2-Jul-1971","endTime":"7:14 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On July 2, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 7:13 pm to 7:14 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 006-113 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 6-113\n\nDate: July 2, 1971\nTime: 7:13 pm - 7:14 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under deed of gift 05/01/2023. Segment cleared for\nrelease.]\n[Privacy]\n\n[006-113-w001]\n[Duration: 9s]\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n           -Harold Goldstein\n                  -July 3, 1971\n                        -Interrogation\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n           -Polygraph examination\n           -Possible replacement\n           -George P. Shultz\n           -James D. Hodgson\n           -Conversation with the President\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under deed of gift 05/01/2023. Segment cleared for\nrelease.]\n[Privacy]\n[006-113-w002]\n[Duration: 4s]\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n           -Harold Goldstein\n                  -Polygraph examination\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n           -Harvey Goldstein\n                  -Polygraph test\n                  -Possible transfer\n           -President's conversation with Shultz\n           -Administration's response\n           -John B. Connally\n           -Meeting with Cabinet Committee on Economic Policy, June 28\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under deed of gift 05/01/2023. Segment cleared for\nrelease.]\n[Privacy]\n[006-113-w003]\n[Duration: 3s]\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n           -Harold Goldstein\n                  -Polygraph examination\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n     Statistical \"fluke\" statement on unemployment figures\n           -Polygraph examinations","filename":["006-113.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:21:18","tapeEnd":"02:23:54","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"006-112","nextCode":"006-114","transcript":[{"start":2.66,"end":18.27,"text":"The most important thing is, and this is a must, I will not take no for an answer on this."},{"start":18.29,"end":20.81,"text":"And then he's to be given a polygraph."},{"start":20.83,"end":23.07,"text":"Now, if he refuses to take the polygraph, he's out."},{"start":23.89,"end":25.76,"text":"If he takes it and it lies, he's out."},{"start":25.96,"end":26.44,"text":"Is that clear?"},{"start":27.04,"end":27.14,"text":"Yes."},{"start":27.16,"end":28.22,"text":"Now, can't we do something?"},{"start":28.32,"end":30.54,"text":"I'm not going to take no for an answer on this."},{"start":30.68,"end":36.62,"text":"I know Schultz was trying to wiggle off the hook, and so was Hodgson when I talked to him, but I'm not going to take no for an answer on this."},{"start":36.66,"end":38.59,"text":"And I want to raise hell about this, John."},{"start":38.61,"end":40.23,"text":"Well, we have to to get these guys along."},{"start":40.29,"end":40.81,"text":"We can't."},{"start":40.83,"end":43.22,"text":"How the hell can you do it otherwise?"},{"start":43.24,"end":45.22,"text":"I mean, these guys, what the Christ's the matter with Schultz?"},{"start":45.24,"end":46.1,"text":"Has he got any guts?"},{"start":46.5,"end":49.39,"text":"No, he wants to be sure he has all the facts."},{"start":49.41,"end":51.13,"text":"All right, I got the facts."},{"start":51.15,"end":52.19,"text":"I heard what they said."},{"start":52.79,"end":54.03,"text":"I read the release."},{"start":54.05,"end":56.5,"text":"The same with Hodgson."},{"start":56.8,"end":57.84,"text":"I talked to Hodgson myself."},{"start":57.88,"end":58.54,"text":"He knows our ideas."},{"start":59.3,"end":60.74,"text":"There's the thing."},{"start":60.76,"end":61.32,"text":"Don't you agree?"},{"start":65.99,"end":67.83,"text":"We have no reason not to, haven't we?"},{"start":67.85,"end":69.61,"text":"He was ordered not to do this."},{"start":70.23,"end":73.86,"text":"If he did it, he could say, no, were you willing to take a polygraph?"},{"start":74.74,"end":75.92,"text":"He says, no, you're out."},{"start":76.5,"end":77.93,"text":"He says, yes, fine, take it."},{"start":77.95,"end":78.29,"text":"Fair enough?"},{"start":78.57,"end":78.87,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":79.21,"end":80.05,"text":"You see anything wrong with that?"},{"start":80.09,"end":80.83,"text":"No, I don't."},{"start":80.85,"end":81.39,"text":"I don't."},{"start":81.41,"end":84,"text":"I think it's a civil service employee."},{"start":84.26,"end":85.12,"text":"I understand that."},{"start":85.22,"end":86.08,"text":"It's never like we can translate it."},{"start":90.01,"end":92.19,"text":"I'm not going to have it anymore."},{"start":92.21,"end":96.46,"text":"He is an all-out left-wing son of a bitch who's again against us for 20 years."},{"start":96.62,"end":97.34,"text":"George knows this."},{"start":97.36,"end":98.82,"text":"I've told George this."},{"start":98.84,"end":99.72,"text":"George doesn't believe it."},{"start":100.68,"end":101.42,"text":"But it is true."},{"start":103.95,"end":112.3,"text":"I believe... See, Chuck, I gave this order two days ago."},{"start":112.46,"end":116,"text":"And on this test, we screw it up."},{"start":116.02,"end":118.37,"text":"What do you think it's going to do to John Connolly's morale?"},{"start":118.39,"end":118.65,"text":"See my point?"},{"start":118.95,"end":121.79,"text":"What's going to be the others that are going to give us the business?"},{"start":121.81,"end":122.75,"text":"We have got to."},{"start":122.78,"end":123.36,"text":"Don't you agree?"},{"start":123.42,"end":125.36,"text":"We've got to be tough on this one."},{"start":125.38,"end":129.72,"text":"Mr. President, I told you the best thing you've done was the Monday meeting with the economists and the candidates."},{"start":129.81,"end":130.47,"text":"That was talk."},{"start":130.79,"end":133.25,"text":"These people have got to know who's running the government."},{"start":133.27,"end":133.67,"text":"That's right."},{"start":133.69,"end":138.72,"text":"Now, we're running the government now."},{"start":138.78,"end":141.62,"text":"On everybody who had the information, they're going to take polygraphs tomorrow."},{"start":141.64,"end":142.18,"text":"Is that clear?"},{"start":142.38,"end":142.99,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":143.09,"end":144.03,"text":"And let them leak it."},{"start":144.13,"end":144.61,"text":"I don't care."},{"start":144.63,"end":147.33,"text":"I don't tell George that it's suppression."},{"start":147.45,"end":148.21,"text":"It's bullshit."},{"start":148.55,"end":150.38,"text":"I want to know who did this."},{"start":150.4,"end":152.03,"text":"Now, God damn it, I want to find out."},{"start":152.15,"end":152.77,"text":"Is that clear?"},{"start":152.79,"end":153.03,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":153.32,"end":154.42,"text":"Okay, let's go."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon directs Charles Colson to initiate polygraph examinations for Department of Labor officials, specifically targeting Harold Goldstein, regarding unauthorized comments labeling recent unemployment figures a \"statistical fluke.\" Nixon expresses extreme frustration with the perceived lack of resolve from George Shultz and James Hodgson in addressing internal leaks, viewing the incident as a test of his administration's authority. He mandates that any employee refusing the test or failing to pass it must be terminated immediately to ensure control over the bureaucracy.","topics":["Harold Goldstein","unemployment figures","polygraph examination","government leaks","executive authority","personnel management"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T22:15:58.427Z"},"topicSlugs":["harold-goldstein","unemployment-figures","polygraph-examination","government-leaks","executive-authority","personnel-management"],"audioDurationSec":157,"audioFiles":[{"file":"006-113.mp3","bytes":3761316,"durationSec":156.62,"bitrate":192126,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:21.079Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:34.573Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/006-113.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/006-113","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/006/conversation-006-113","catalogNaId":417189117,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417189117","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}