Conversation 008-087

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Hello.

Good afternoon, Mr. President.

Hope I didn't get you out of anything.

I was just sitting here in the office and I saw it was raining.

Well, no, I just got back from Boston, as a matter of fact.

Oh, I see.

I'm sorry that I missed your call yesterday.

Oh, no, it was not important.

Not important.

I was just driving my son.

I was in Camp David and I was just going over some things and I think the matter was not important.

I took care of everything.

All right.

Well, how are the temperatures in Boston?

Well, it's a very interesting thing.

Cabot Lodge, you know, says he thinks we're doing better in Massachusetts than we think.

I was only there for a few hours, but the fascinating thing is that the hottest issue in Boston right now is busing.

I'll be darned.

You watch the... What do they... Who the hell do they bus in Boston?

Well, they're trying to bus people from white suburbs or lower-middle-class white areas like Dorchester and Roxbury, Hyde Park, into the black areas...

But Chuck, my understanding is there are not enough Negroes in Boston to put in a symbol.

No, but there is.

There's enough, huh?

Raisin-holy hell.

It's 2% of the population.

And yet they've got both the blacks and the whites ticketing in front of the home of the chairman of the school board.

And last night on... You know, we... That has nothing to do with us, you know.

Oh, no.

Because we haven't...

The de facto busing has not been ruled on by the courts, and there's no HEW plans.

I hope everybody understands that.

Well, they do.

Oh, they're raising hell with the local politicians.

But the interesting thing to me is, last night on the evening news...

in boston and i saw it on two channels they had interviews with both the blacks and the whites and they were just adamant they're boycotting they're not going to let their kids go on a bus blacks too blacks as well yes sir they had some black gals on saying that they just wouldn't have any part of it it's a fascinating phenomenon how how hot that issue has become i tell you i personally think that the court

As Berger, of course, thank God, tried to put it somewhat in perspective, but the court is going to rule the day that it went that far, and we may have to go the constitutional amendment route on the thing.

Well, it would be damn popular, Mr. President.

I think it would go through faster than the 18-year-old vote went through.

Yeah.

I really do, because the...

I don't think there's a... Well, you're only going to find the very liberal Democrats or those who are trying to really cultivate the black vote

And even there it isn't popular.

I talked to Ed after I talked to you on Friday about the Husky Statement.

And even with the blacks, they don't want it.

I just think it's...

I think a lot of the blacks that are affected by it don't want it.

The only blacks that want it are the professional blacks.

Precisely.

The professional militants want it because it's an issue which causes agitation.

Exactly.

It's basically a radical white and radical black issue.

Yes, and I don't think for any social purpose.

I think the real purpose is that you just agitate the hell out of people.

They had all these lower middle class Irish, Polish people on last night just outraged and boycotting and walking in the streets.

Of course, that's what the militants want.

The militants want confrontation.

the professional militants.

So I just don't think with the blacks that it's even that good an issue.

I'm ecstatic we have Muskie where we do on it because I don't think he can back down.

He's opposed, flatly opposed, your statement and your restrictive amendment that we can't use any of the funds for the purposes of busing.

And he's on the record and

I don't care what he says after this.

That quote, he's going to regret that quote.

Well, how are we doing on the other sides?

There was good follow-up on the speech things, I understand, by your people and so forth.

I think so, Mr. President.

We're getting good responses from all of the groups that we've been working with.

I had Henry Cashin put a complete report together Friday afternoon, which I sent in to you.

You might just want to skim through, but it's very interesting the numbers of people that are giving us backing and

the numbers of people who are working for us.

We've had several thousand letters, surprisingly, from businesses pledging their support and sending copies to the Congress.

I think we are now printing up presidential certificates of appreciation for their support of your economic policies, which will start out next Thursday.

I think we've got about 2,500 of them that already we know we'll be sending to big companies, little companies, and

and then we're sending cards of appreciation which are very nicely engraved out to individuals we ought to have a probably a pretty good mailing i would think to the people of both of the uh

congressional speech, don't you think so, and of the work ethic speech?

Yes, sir.

Those are two that fit pretty well with a lot of people.

Well, we've got a major mailing going out on both of them.

Well, we've sent the work ethic speech very widely.

Right.

I don't know whether you've noticed, but there have been an awful lot of editorials about it.

No, I haven't noticed.

Well, Nick Timmish wrote one of the best pieces, just a brilliantly written editorial about it.

I saw one this weekend.

I'm trying to think where.

And then I've seen a lot of clips come in from different newspapers saying that the work ethic is still alive and praising your speech.

Very, very complimentary.

I've only seen one or two.

Some are going to knock it.

We're in a situation where you take, for example, the reaction to the Thursday speech.

This really infuriated and infuriated mainly because it frustrated our

Democratic and media opponents because they knew damn well what we were doing.

We were one-upping them.

Oh, sure.

They were ready to pounce on us.

That's exactly right.

I thought Connolly's thing came off well, too.

Yes, I'm very happy he did that, and he did it beautifully.

We stuck it right up to him, and then he was, wasn't he carried on the networks?

Yes, sir.

I thought he would be.

And he was, he got very good front-page press.

I've seen five.

I saw the two Washington Papers and the New York Times.

Right, and...

And it's very good he did it when he did.

I remember that.

That, it seems to me, lays to rest the idea we don't have a program coming up.

Exactly.

He has indicated the time.

We've indicated that we're going to be ready and this and that.

Well, you have a timetable, which is the important thing.

And I think that you'll find tomorrow morning, I just predict to you that the market will take a bounce up again tomorrow.

There was concern

over your meeting with Meany that maybe something would be done about corporate profits and Conley put that to rest and laid out the timetable.

Yes, September 30th and then 30 days before.

That'll be very reassuring.

Can't tell about the market.

It goes up and down for other reasons, but I have a feeling I got too many reports from people that

For example, Billy Graham made an interesting point.

He said that from their contributions, in other words, they just put on one of their big television spectaculars, you know, of his parade, and then they ask for contributions, and they've averaged $8 this year, and they averaged $6 a year ago.

He said that his experts tell him that that indicates to them what the economy will be five months from now, and he says...

It's very, and it's extremely bullish.

They said their contributions are greater now.

Isn't that interesting?

Now, that's just one little thing.

But there are lots of reports that seem to be trickling in.

I mean, I don't know what the numbers are going to show, but I have a feeling that people cannot be feeling better without doing something more about it pretty soon.

That's right.

It has to be.

And I think Billy Graham has a very good barometer.

Because people...

aren't in a mood to give if they feel the economy is going to be bad.

They'll only give if they feel their own income is going to justify it.

We had this American Society of Association Executives, the group that came through.

Yes, sir.

You spent so much time with them, which was so helpful.

They did a survey, Mr. President just released it, that went through all of their members.

They had 420 association executives who took part in it, and then they ran the thing through computers.

And based on the industries represented by those 420 executives, they are predicting a 10% improvement in employment in their industries.

Sales volume in excess of 10% improved over the next 12 months.

Let's see, business in the last half of 1971 will rise substantially.

18% of those polled think that business volume will remain unchanged.

72% believe that it will be up from 5% to 15%.

only nine percent believe that volume will be unchanged during 1972. more than half of those polled expect employment in the last half of 1971 to be up at least five percent and two-thirds believe employment in 1972 will rise between five to fifteen percent above the 1971 level in their industries it's an extraordinarily very bullish very bullish report now these are fellows who were who are submitting

basically confidential questionnaires about the status of their industry.

But the trade association executive, even if he tends to be a little bit on the optimistic side, nonetheless has a pretty good feel of that industry.

And they, that 420 people that they surveyed covers the whole spectrum of business.

And that's a damn good indicator.

Yeah.

You know, Connolly made a very interesting point.

He was at lunch with Graham today just and, and, uh,

And he made a very interesting point.

He said that some of the editorial people were sort of criticizing the inspirational rhetoric.

And he said, you know,

That was by far the most important part of the speech.

Oh, yes.

He's right, too, you know.

That's what got to them.

I think that they just don't want to hear these good things, do they?

No, the Democrats can't afford to because the... And the media people.

And the media.

The only way the Democrats can succeed is if times are bad, if times are good next year.

And they also don't want to hear, not in just the times, but like they don't like to hear, well, this is a good country and the people want to work and that we're not going to be number two and all that.

That's the kind of thing that is this positive kind of talk that we can get our congressmen and senators, Chuck, to really zing on that.

That's what they need.

I mean, to talk upbeat, you know.

It's going to make people start feeling upbeat.

That's what they have to do.

Well, it does.

And I really think one reason, Mr. President, that the polls, both Harris and Gallup, showed us staying at the same in terms of...

although I think it's very significant that the strong... Strong approval on both apparently is up.

Is up, right.

And I think that's the forerunner of other things to come.

But I think really when things begin now to improve as they just are bound to do, I mean, Billy Graham's parameter or the association executive's parameter, they're all the same.

And people see the results.

Then I think you'll see those figures start to move.

uh they have to i just well in any event let's suppose that we can hold them where they are

The moral, it's the moral crisis I'm concerned about.

It's the crisis among basically within the Catholic Church, the liberal Catholics versus the conservative Catholics, within the Protestant Church, the liberal Protestants versus the conservative Protestants, within education for that matter.

And then, of course, deep down, the real problem is whether people are going to survive.

I don't know.

It's a very, very

excruciatingly difficult, the President.

It is, Mr. President, but if you look at the difference today from two to three years ago, you will see really, and I think...

There is a change.

Of course there is.

I mean, there isn't quite as, I mean, the cities aren't burning quite as much, and we aren't catering so much to it either, you know.

We catered too much to it at the beginning.

Well, your trip across the country, which got a lot of, even the Liberals,

and commentators noted the fact, some of them grudgingly, that you had gone all across the country without a single demonstration, and it was just three years ago that the President of the United States was really imprisoned in the White House.

Well, they also have to remember this, that

that we picked the time just before school began.

We'll catch him again when school begins, Chuck, but I don't mind.

No, but it is a dramatic difference.

But it's good that we did this trip and get it over with now.

Well, that was a great trip in all respects, but I think you...

There are less demonstrators.

There are more friendly people, let's face it, and...

Well, I think that's, and I'm firmly convinced it's what people want.

I'm absolutely sure of that.

And, of course, the issue is so clear as far as you're concerned that I just feel that...

Well, anyway, we'll keep going on your program that you, I think it's very good that you've developed.

We're certainly going to need it in phase two.

We're going to need a hell of a lot of publics, frankly, public policing prices, and that'll be very helpful then.

Well, we've gotten a good start, Mr. President.

I've gone through that memo that you went through and have eliminated some of the things that were less important, and I have

one man assigned to each one of the tests.

He's reporting in to me two and three times a week and we'll just keep him going.

The Citizens Committee got started yesterday and made a good... Hope Lewis?

Hope Lewis.

He had three former secretaries of treasury.

It was a good article in the Times about it.

And also the Boston Press carried it well.

He had four of the Teamster vice presidents.

He's such a great guy.

We've got a good group on the outside that'll be working with us, and we'll keep the steam on.

All right.

Okay.

Thank you.

Get a little rest.

Thank you, sir.