Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 8 › Conversation 008-100

Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on Presidential finances and J. Edgar Hoover

Sunday, September 12, 1971 · 5:15 PM–5:31 PM ET · White House Telephone · 17 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation008-100 on Tape 8 (tape position 04:26:32–04:43:11)StartSunday, September 12, 1971 at 5:15 PMEndSunday, September 12, 1971 at 5:31 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 008-100 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discussed defensive strategies regarding inquiries into the President's personal finances and property dealings, agreeing to adopt a firm stance by reiterating that there have been no changes to his financial disclosures. The conversation shifted to internal FBI concerns, with Ehrlichman advising that Nixon meet with J. Edgar Hoover regarding a leadership transition to L. Patrick Gray. Finally, the two reviewed legislative strategy, deciding to maintain a firm position on welfare reform while pressuring Congress to act on a broader package of stalled domestic initiatives, including revenue sharing, health programs, and strike legislation.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I had Mr. Ehrlichman returning your call.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Hello, John.
Yes, sir.
Well, you can see what a lawyer can do when he becomes a minister.
I should say so.
You know, he's got a very, very effective style.
He sure does.
B.B.
says that's the way he always is preached.
He gets out there just like talking to a jury.
Yep, that's what it reminds me of.
He's got a great gift, though.
The fellow's got a fantastic ability to, you know, to...
He's a good one.
I've never heard him before.
I gather he's got a huge following.
Yes, he has.
He has, yeah.
The other thing that occurred to me was that it seemed to me that when Dean gets the questions in this sort of business and so forth on the wrestling, rather than just a straight stonewall, or maybe he is doing this, what he ought to do is simply to hand them a...
Photos that copy of the release we put out and say this was the president's position It was fully disclosed and there has been no change.
Well as a matter of fact we have We've reprinted that release good and we keep handing it out good right along and remember danger say That is the total disclosure and there is no change because it's quite true.
Is it not?
I Haven't acquired any more property
The only change is the sale of that one lot over there on the other plat on Key Biscayne.
We didn't sell it yet.
Oh, I see.
It hasn't sold.
Oh, fine.
No, we'd have it up for sale, but it hasn't sold.
We haven't sold a damn thing.
Well, then that's strictly status quo.
They can say he put everything into real estate, this is it, and there's been no change.
And that's that.
And that answers all questions.
And if they have anything that goes beyond that, just say that's the answer to the question.
For example, B.B.
was pointing out that he apparently had read this letter, which I had not understood.
They'd asked for an interview with me to answer the question.
But he said they wanted to know whether or not I was in certain deals with Smathers and whether I knew Smathers was involved and had some interest in
Fishers Island and whether I was in Coquilobo.
Well, for Christ's sake, of course, I'm not in any of those things and I've never been in any deal with some matters of my life.
But the point is, we shouldn't even dignify stuff with an answer.
Because we know we're clean.
And where they were after Johnson, it's a hell of a lot different thing.
I mean, they had a lot of stuff there, but they didn't go after him even while he was president, you know.
Well, I...
Remember on the Bobby Baker thing, they left him alone.
I know it.
Now, in this case, I think we should play goddamn tough with them and say, now, this is the fact, and we would just respectfully suggest anything that suggests anything beyond that will be totally false.
And this is a total story, right?
And we know it's just absolutely the God's truth.
Yeah, that's the fact.
All that I know is, you know, I haven't looked at the, except for a brief conversation with Kambach and DeMarco this last weekend.
I don't even have the slightest idea of what's happened to what I've, since I've been in office, I've paid no attention, whatever.
There it is.
I had a good talk with John Mitchell yesterday about those associated problems that I mentioned to you.
And he's going to see you, I guess, tomorrow afternoon.
Including Hoover?
Yes.
What's he say about that?
Well, he says it's definitely time to move, that every minute is precious, and that you should see him, and preferably alone.
Although Bob has real misgivings about that, feels that he or he, Bob, or someone should sit in on that, and I'm inclined to agree with that.
But Mitchell feels he should not be present.
Well, I could see him alone.
I'm not so concerned about Hoover with me is not going to do me in.
Well, in any event, John hopes it can be this coming week.
That'll be a little hard, but I could do it the first of next week a little bit better.
All right, well.
In any event, he thinks we should move now.
Yes.
Does he think that Hoover or does he have any idea how Hoover will react?
He has a feeling that it will be that Hoover will see the merit in it.
Yeah.
And we'll accept Pat Gray and that we can get an easy transition on it.
Mm hmm.
I think the thing to do is that we've got to talk about it in any event.
Hoover and I have got to talk about it.
I'll start the conversation by saying, now look, if we decide we're not going to do anything, this conversation never took place.
You and I will both understand it.
Then I'll say, but now let's talk a little about this so that we'll know what we ought to do.
Mitchell says that the reports about the internal problems in the Bureau are true.
They're not quite as aggravated as Marty and makes them out, but nevertheless, it is a serious situation.
Right.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Good.
All right, sir.
I'm glad you... And you think we will still sit on that family assistance thing the way we...
I'll have to talk to Long about something.
Well, I've got something for you to talk to him about, and that is an aspect of revenue sharing.
We can put together a very nice meeting on that subject.
And, of course, you do have the economic policy tax things to talk to him about, too.
So it makes a good package, and you never even have to mention welfare.
And we don't want to at this point.
Right.
We sort of want that to be fought out in the Senate.
Is that right?
That's right.
That's right.
The three groups go their various ways.
Elliott and Clark McGregor are having breakfast with the Senate Finance Committee this week on Wednesday.
And I will program Elliott between now and Wednesday that we do not intend to deviate from our present position, and particularly not to the liberal side.
That's particular.
There could be no given the liberal stuff.
On the other hand, can we go with Elliott?
There is some appeal, in my opinion.
I think there's even political merit to
doing the experiment deal.
Or do you agree?
Yes.
Gene Cowan is inclined to think that we have to let the thing founder in the Senate first, let them come up with no bill at all, and then make that an administration initiative to come back and say, well, you know, the Senate... At least give us this.
Yes.
I see.
Good.
Which we should do.
But I think we've got this situation, and I was talking earlier today to Bob Finch,
We are in a position now, and I think I want you and the Domestic Council to develop it a little further on a number of other issues, maybe about ten others where people have interests but that are not as big.
But let's look at it for a moment.
We've got welfare reform, and I've asked for action this session.
We've asked revenue sharing, action this session.
Reorganization, action this session.
All of these great initiatives are here, and the Congress has not acted.
Now,
We can pick up our health program, right?
Yes.
It's there.
Railroad strikes?
The strike legislation.
Right.
We've got that there.
Are there any ecology things?
Oh, yes.
Yes, indeed.
We could make a list of 12 very heavyweight items.
That's right.
15, maybe.
Right.
All together.
And then I think we give those to speakers.
and let them go out across the country and say, let the Congress act this session.
Let it act.
I think this idea, that's one of the main purposes, as I understood it, of the Thursday speech was to put the monkey in the Congress' back.
I think it's pretty much on their back now.
Don't you think so?
Yes, we can hit that, for instance, on that West Coast domestic backgrounder.
Good.
Good.
That would be a good thing to prepare for.
Good.
Okay.
All right, sir.
Bye.

NARA Description

On September 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 5:15 pm to 5:31 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 008-100 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 8-100

Date: September 12, 1971
Time: 5:15 pm - 5:31 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See Conversation No. 278-30]

     Church service
          -Reverend Ben Haden
               -Lawyer
               -Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo

    Expenditures
        -Possible questions to John W. Dean, III
              -Release
                   -Photostatic copy
                   -Reprint
                   -The President's property
                          -Key Biscayne
                          -Real estate
        -Questions to the President
              -Rebozo
                   -Unknown letter
              -Possible interview with the President
                   -George A. Smathers
                          -Fisher's Island
                          -Coco Lobo
        -Lyndon B. Johnson
              -Bobby Baker
        -President’s view
        -The President's recent conversations with Herbert W. Kalmbach and Frank
              DeMarco, Jr.
              -The President's property
                   -President’s involvement

**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 11m 11s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

**********************************************************************

    Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
         -Ehrlichman's talk with John N. Mitchell
               -Mitchell’s forthcoming meeting with the President
               -The President's possible meeting with J. Edgar Hoover
                    -Mitchell’s view
                    -Haldeman

                 -Mitchell
                 -Timing
                 -Hoover’s possible reaction
                      -L. Patrick Gray
     -Internal problems
           -Mitchell
           -Robert T. Mardian

Economy
    -Family Assistance Plan [FAP]
         -Delay
         -Russell B. Long meeting
               -Revenue sharing
                     -Meeting
               -Tax
               -Welfare
                     -Senate fight
    -Welfare
         -Senate Finance Committee
               -Elliot L. Richardson
               -Clark MacGregor
                     -Deviation from position
                           -Liberal side
         -Experiment
               -Eugene S. Cowen
                     -Senate
                           -Bill
                     -Administration initiative
    -Congressional action
         -The President's talk with Robert H. Finch
               -Domestic Council
                     -Public interest
         -Current session
               -Welfare reform
               -Revenue sharing
               -Reorganization
         -Health program
         -Strike legislation
         -Ecology
         -Number of possible initiatives
         -Strategy
               -Speakers

                     -Economic speech, September 9, 1971
                          -Pressure on Congress
                     -West Coast domestic backgrounder

Also recorded on September 12, 1971

  • 008-096 5:02 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:02 pm and 5:08 pm.
  • 008-097 5:02 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:02 pm and 5:08 pm.
  • 008-098 5:08 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 5:08 pm to 5:14 pm.
  • 278-029 5:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:08 pm to 5:14 pm.
  • 008-099 5:14 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:14 pm.
  • 278-030 5:15 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:15 pm to 5:31 pm.
  • 008-101 5:31 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:31 pm and 5:33 pm.
  • 008-102 5:31 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:31 pm and 5:33 pm.

All 32 conversations from September 12, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 008-100, September 12, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/008-100 (accessed October 9, 2026).