Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 9 › Conversation 009-004

Nixon phone call with Rogers on Vietnam War and Montoya Amendment

Tuesday, September 14, 1971 · 5:39 PM–5:42 PM ET · White House Telephone ·3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Rogers, William P.Conversation009-004 onTape 9 (tape position 00:02:12–00:05:40)StartTuesday, September 14, 1971 at 5:39 PMEndTuesday, September 14, 1971 at 5:42 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 009-004 ↗

AI Summary

Secretary of State William P. Rogers briefed President Nixon on a potential legislative challenge regarding the Vietnam War, specifically an amendment proposed by Senator Joseph M. Montoya. The amendment sought to tie military procurement funding to the requirement of contested elections in South Vietnam, a move the administration feared would gain significant support and create pressure for the resignation of South Vietnamese leaders Nguyen Van Thieu and Nguyen Cao Ky. The two agreed to coordinate with National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger and Ambassador Ellsworth Bunker to develop a strategic response to the resolution. They also briefly exchanged positive feedback regarding a recent television appearance by First Lady Pat Nixon.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello, Mr. President.
Hi, Bill.
How are you?
Good, thanks.
I just wanted to take a minute.
Go right ahead.
I was in the barber shop when you called.
He's a good barber.
Milton, yeah.
I could use him any time.
He's over there now, as a matter of fact.
Yeah, well, I do.
You recommended him.
I appreciate it.
I wanted to alert you to something that may cause a little problem.
Senator Montoya, who hasn't been active in the Vietnam thing, has a resolution or amendment which he is going to...
I guess, attempt to attach to the military procurement.
Oh, the draft?
Yeah.
Well, the military procurement.
Oh, I see.
Which, in effect, will say that none of the money can be used in Vietnam unless there's a fairly free contested election.
And it will attract, I'm afraid, a hell of a lot of support because on the face of it, it looks pretty attractive.
Furthermore, Chu has recently made a statement that if,
military assistance was cut off, that he would then resign.
So Montoya will argue, well, this is a way to bring about a contested election because if Chu and Key resign, then they'll have to have an election.
So I'm not being against your policy in Vietnam.
I'm helping your policy in Vietnam.
It also fits into Jackson's position.
I just wanted to alert you to it.
I think that I'll talk to Henry about it.
It's something that could cause us some trouble.
Sure could.
We'll send a copy of it out to Bunker.
The difficulty with the damn thing is that nobody has a very good solution.
None of us like the idea of having to resign, and it's too late to get an election now.
But anyway... And they know that, too.
They know that.
Well, I wanted to alert you to it, and because...
When will it be?
Well, it could...
He's offered it, but it didn't get much attention.
But if it comes up on the floor, it could come up within the next several days.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a tough one, isn't it?
You know, you stop to think of it there.
On the plus side, at least in Vietnam, they did have an election for Congress.
That's right.
And Q at least has said that they have a referendum.
Yeah, and that I'll get out and fight if the ballots are not enough.
And also you can look at the 50 new countries, however many there are since World War II, and you've probably only got three where there's anybody that's been elected.
who has office, who is there as a result of a contested election.
And a parliamentary election was a pretty fair election.
Oh, no question.
I tried.
Well, neither that, we can't argue it, can we?
No, I just wanted to let you know.
I appreciate your calling.
We'll try to work out something.
I'll give Henry a call and see what we can work out.
Everything else going well, I think.
Well, we're sitting around.
I appreciated your remarks at the cabinet.
Pat got a lot of fine wires on our broadcast.
Oh, she was tremendous, I thought.
Really a lot of wires.
I thought your remarks were great, too.
I didn't say much about that because it was really Pat's day, but I thought yours were very good.
Well, sometimes those programs do more good than we think, too.
I'll say.
I think it was nice to have the women, didn't you, for this kind of thing?
Oh, the women, really appreciate it.
And giving them a little feel of, you know, the whole thing.
Adele, appreciate it very much.
Particularly a good subject, too.
Very good.
Okay, Mr. Fred.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Bye.

NARA Description

On September 14, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 5:39 pm to 5:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 009-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 9-4

Date: September 14, 1971
Time: 5:39 pm - 5:42 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with William P. Rogers.

[See Conversation No. 278-36A]

     President's location
           -Barbershop
                 -Milton Pitts

     Vietnam War
          -Joseph M. Montoya Amendment
               -Military procurement legislation
               -Provisions
                     -Elections in South Vietnam
               -Prospective support
               -Nguyen Van Thieu
                     -Possible resignation
               -Nguyen Cao Ky
               -Henry M. ("Scoop") Jackson
               -Rogers’s forthcoming conversation with Henry A. Kissinger
               -Ellsworth F. Bunker

                -Attention
                -Time period
          -Election process in Vietnam
                -Election for Congress
          -Referendum
          -New countries
                -Time period since World War II
                -Elections
                      -Type of elective process
                            -Compared to Vietnam
          -Parliamentary election
          -Amendment
                -Rogers’s forthcoming conversation with Kissinger
          -Rogers’s remarks at Cabinet meeting

     Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon's television broadcast
          -Response
               -Wires
          -The President's remarks

     Cabinet meeting
          -Wives
               -Adele (Langston) Rogers

Also recorded on September 14, 1971

  • 009-003 5:35 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:35 pm and 5:39 pm.
  • 278-034 5:35 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:35 pm and 5:39 pm.
  • 278-035 5:35 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:35 pm and 5:39 pm.
  • 278-036 5:39 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, William P. Rogers, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, Nelson A. Rockefeller, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:39 pm to 6:35 pm.
  • 009-005 6:07 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:07 pm and 6:13 pm.
  • 009-006 6:13 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Nelson A. Rockefeller talked on the telephone from 6:13 pm to 6:18 pm.
  • 009-007 6:18 PM · 13 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:18 pm and 6:35 pm.
  • 009-008 6:18 PM · 7 min — Henry A. Kissinger and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:18 pm and 6:35 pm.

All 37 conversations from September 14, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 009-004, September 14, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/009-004 (accessed September 18, 2026).