{"conversationCode":"009-040","tapeNumber":9,"conversationNumber":40,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-009-040","startDateTime":"1971-09-16T15:48:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-09-16T15:50:00.000Z","startDate":"16-Sep-1971","startTime":"11:48 AM","endDate":"16-Sep-1971","endTime":"11:50 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Shultz, George P.;","description":"On September 16, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and George P. Shultz talked on the telephone from 11:48 am to 11:50 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 009-040 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 9-40\n\nDate: September 16, 1971\nTime: 11:48 am - 11:50 am\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with George Shultz.\n\n[See Conversation No. 278-57]\n\n     Economic policy\n         -Wage and price freeze\n         -Question of announcement\n         -Maurice H. Stans\n         -Phase II\n              -Idea of productivity\n              -Government\n                    -Wage and price controls\n                          -Compared to tri-partite board\n         -Administration position\n         -Announcement\n              -Wage and price controls\n         -Stans\n         -Announcement\n              -Ronald L. Ziegler\n         -Cost of Living Council\n              -John B. Connally\n         -Shultz memorandum","filename":["009-040.mp3"],"tapeStart":"01:23:29","tapeEnd":"01:26:28","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Shultz, George P."],"prevCode":"009-039","nextCode":"009-041","transcript":[{"start":3.85,"end":6.37,"text":"President."},{"start":6.39,"end":7.85,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7.87,"end":8.09,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":8.59,"end":14.6,"text":"George, one thing that I may, somebody may ask, I doubt it, but they might."},{"start":15.34,"end":27.47,"text":"Stans, as you note, said that wage increases in Phase II would be based on productivity and that we were leaning to a government administration of wage and price controls rather than a part-type board."},{"start":28.33,"end":33.19,"text":"Now, actually, in my opinion, I mean, I'm not going to, I mean, it's not all that big, but"},{"start":33.73,"end":37.6,"text":"It's really well for all of our people not to say a damn thing about what we're leaning to."},{"start":37.62,"end":38.74,"text":"You're absolutely right."},{"start":38.9,"end":52.13,"text":"I mean, that's an option that I've got to make, and for cabinet people to indicate that, well, we lean to this or that or the other thing only creates either uncertainty or raises expectations that we may dash or creates conflict that we don't need to have."},{"start":52.11,"end":55.95,"text":"But it also is inconsistent with the posture that we're in."},{"start":55.97,"end":57.88,"text":"We're supposed to be talking to people."},{"start":58.22,"end":66.49,"text":"I intend to say today that we're going to have, that we will have an effective program, that it will deal with both wages and prices, particularly in major industries."},{"start":66.83,"end":67.91,"text":"I think that's what I should say."},{"start":68.53,"end":69.37,"text":"Does that sound all right to you?"},{"start":69.45,"end":70.47,"text":"That sounds all right."},{"start":70.75,"end":72.06,"text":"And that it will have teeth in it."},{"start":72.88,"end":74.06,"text":"I think we've got to say that."},{"start":74.66,"end":77.01,"text":"I don't think we can say that there's not going to be any sanctions."},{"start":77.11,"end":77.35,"text":"Sure."},{"start":77.79,"end":78.97,"text":"And that's all."},{"start":79.25,"end":80.33,"text":"But that's all I'm going to say."},{"start":81.25,"end":84.58,"text":"But if you get it in the form of stands... What would you say on that?"},{"start":84.64,"end":88.66,"text":"That represents one point of view."},{"start":88.9,"end":93.93,"text":"It's speculations, but you are going to make that decision, and you are still listening."},{"start":94.13,"end":95.19,"text":"Yeah, that's right."},{"start":95.17,"end":95.73,"text":"Uh-huh."},{"start":96.13,"end":97.39,"text":"And there is no decision."},{"start":97.42,"end":97.52,"text":"Okay."},{"start":97.88,"end":98.2,"text":"All right."},{"start":98.34,"end":101.64,"text":"You feel that that's important to knock that down because... Yeah."},{"start":101.66,"end":101.76,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":101.78,"end":103.34,"text":"And we've told that to Ron Ziegler."},{"start":103.36,"end":104.73,"text":"I don't know how he's made out this."},{"start":104.75,"end":105.01,"text":"Sure."},{"start":105.43,"end":106.83,"text":"Well, I will knock it down."},{"start":106.99,"end":108.43,"text":"It's important to knock it down."},{"start":108.51,"end":110.76,"text":"And I don't know when we..."},{"start":112.28,"end":117.81,"text":"Unfortunately, Connolly's not here because he's the fellow that should keep that cost of living council in line."},{"start":117.87,"end":118.33,"text":"But..."},{"start":119.35,"end":120.74,"text":"And I don't want to bother."},{"start":120.96,"end":124.94,"text":"Well, I've whacked at them a couple of times when they've gotten out of line."},{"start":125.04,"end":125.84,"text":"I'll do that again."},{"start":126,"end":144.7,"text":"I would just simply say, I just think you'd better put out a memorandum, maybe from me, that I would strongly suggest that until the decision is announced, announced around the middle of next month, there should be no speculation whatever as to what that decision will be."},{"start":145,"end":145.54,"text":"Okay."},{"start":145.71,"end":146.19,"text":"I'll get to that."},{"start":146.33,"end":146.79,"text":"Just say that."},{"start":147.23,"end":165.32,"text":"That is the, that I, that I, that I understand that there'll be great interest in it and I, and there can be discussion, but there should be no speculation as to what the President's decision will be so that he will have, so that we, so that our continued, uh, our continued, uh,"},{"start":166.16,"end":178.49,"text":"consultations will have credibility and so that i will have complete have none of my options closed right yeah just put out something a memorandum to that effect all right sir good will do all right"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and George Shultz discuss the need to curb public speculation by administration officials regarding the structure of the upcoming Phase II wage and price controls. Nixon expresses concern that comments from cabinet members, specifically Maurice Stans, prematurely signal policy decisions and undermine the administration's credibility. To maintain control over his options, Nixon instructs Shultz to issue a memorandum directing officials to refrain from speculating on the final program until a formal decision is announced.","topics":["Phase II","Wage and price controls","Economic policy","Cost of Living Council","Administration discipline"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T22:53:19.513Z"},"topicSlugs":["phase-ii","wage-and-price-controls","economic-policy","cost-of-living-council","administration-discipline"],"audioDurationSec":180,"audioFiles":[{"file":"009-040.mp3","bytes":4319607,"durationSec":179.91,"bitrate":192076,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:21.708Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/009-040.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/009-040","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/9/conversation-009-040","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}