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Conversation 009-101

TapeTape 9StartMonday, September 20, 1971 at 7:40 PMEndMonday, September 20, 1971 at 7:50 PMTape start time02:43:52Tape end time02:54:07ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Mitchell, John N.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and John Mitchell discuss the strategy for upcoming Supreme Court nominations, specifically evaluating potential candidates such as Richard H. Poff and Lawrence E. Walsh. The conversation centers on navigating the approval process within the House and Senate, ensuring the candidates meet conservative criteria, and considering the political advantages of appointing a Catholic jurist. Nixon tasks Mitchell with vetting candidates for these qualifications and coordinating with House leadership, specifically Jerry Ford, to secure support for the nominations.

Supreme Court nominationsJohn N. MitchellPolitical strategyJudicial appointmentsConservative ideology
AudioNARA Description

On September 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 7:40 pm to 7:50 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 009-101 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 9-101

Date: September 20, 1971
Time: 7:40 pm - 7:50 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John N. Mitchell.

     Appointments
         -Supreme Court

-Meeting with Mitchell
       -Richard G. Kleindienst
       -William H. Rehnquist
       -Lawrence E. ("Ed") Walsh
            -Clement F. Haynesworth, Jr.
                  -Senate
            -Richard H. Poff
                  -Age
                  -Law experience
                  -Southern Judges
                  -Senate and House
            -John L. McClellan
                  -Support for Poff
                  -The Bar [American Bar Association]
                  -Gerald R. Ford
            -Poff
            -Views on nominees
-Catholic
       -William J. Brennan, Jr.
-Italian
-Polish
       -William French Smith
-Catholic
       -Unknown man in Massachusetts
            -Edward W. Brooke’s potential support
       -Benefits
-Jewish nominees
-Walsh
       -Catholic
       -Views
       -Busing
       -Criminal law
       -The President's call to William P. Rogers
       -Rogers’ talk with Mitchell
            -Charles Evans Hughes
       -Age
       -Support from the Bar [American Bar Association]
       -John M. Harlan
       -Conservative
-Warren E. Burger
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello?
Hi, John?
I didn't want to interrupt you while you were talking earlier, but how'd you get along with those fellows?
Did you make a sale, I hope?
I think so.
I'm finding that I really work well, show up pretty good.
We have to realize, John, that, you know, the House and Senator, well, at least the House, is so damn strong for this fellow.
We're going to have a hell of a time if we don't appoint him.
He recognized that.
I think he had it in our hands as well.
Because he's been in, he's worked this hill before, you know.
He's done some human service for it.
Right.
What the end result of it was, we thought, you know,
God, I don't know.
Well, I guess not.
I guess not.
I'll tell you why I think it's a risk we shouldn't buy.
I think it looks like a petulant president.
pushing somebody again.
That's the point.
It's fine for Hainsworth, but it's not good for the presidency, you know.
Well, uh, the fact that you changed the Senate would put us through, uh, wouldn't have probably detracted as much.
I think it would.
I just think it looks a little bit, uh, that we're just trying to prove to these fellows that they were wrong.
Yeah.
All right.
And they, uh,
Did you ever find out his age?
Great, great, all right, you're all right that way.
Uh, no, no problem.
Uh, the absolute fact of the matter is, that's very, very little loss.
I know, I know, none.
Not a hell of a lesson I have to deal with.
Absolutely.
No question about it.
At least I was the one who screamed cold a couple of times, and he'd never been.
That's true.
With your permission, what I thought we'd do is to take the probes.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Ed could see the point of the Judiciary Committee experience as being enormously important.
Yes, he knows that.
He agrees with us now that we're well prepared.
We've got all the cops, the track workers, the service on the Judiciary Committee, the Constitutional Court, and all of that.
He agrees with us.
And he's a good soul to give a lot of credit for selling that.
And if he doesn't, then we can roll without him.
We may have to do it.
But what we want to do is we have to do it that way.
We've got to get the Senate House to about two-fifths of them endorsing him.
Is he proposed?
I think you should let him go, then, if he could start a little program.
And so, look, John, the bar raises these questions, and if John could sort of develop and get a certain number of names, and I would also tell Ford in the house to let him go, would you do that?
Give Jerry a call and say, look... Well, your evaluation, see, as I told you, I've not been...
quite that impressive because I haven't really seen him in action.
But on the other hand, he's a young man and he's a good lawyer and good guy.
That's what we need in that court.
Quite a judge.
No.
No, sir.
That's right.
No, sir.
Absolutely.
Now, on the other thing, John, on the second one, if it comes, can I urge you to try to lay them on everything to see if you can find a Catholic, a good Catholic,
Oh, Christ, no.
That's what I mean.
They got Brennan.
No.
But you don't have an honest Italian, do you?
Opposed?
No.
Oh, Christ, no.
He's a Protestant.
Rich and everything else.
All right.
Well, take a look at the Catholics, will you?
The state doesn't bother me.
If he's young enough, the state would be good.
Massachusetts would be good.
You know, we'd get booked at some point.
Is he a Catholic?
How old is he?
You think he's too old to me?
Well, if he could be just 55, that's about right.
That gives him 15 years.
Well, you look for one, will you?
I do.
Politically, we're going to gain a lot more from a Catholic.
Look, the Protestants will just figure it through.
If he's a conservative, a Catholic conservative is better than a Protestant conservative.
We really need that.
Well, the point is, it'll mean more to the Catholics than it will to the Protestants.
The Protestants expect to have things.
The Catholics don't.
When are you going to sell that Jewish piece?
Well, about after I die.
You know and I know there aren't any.
There are no conservatives out there yet.
Never.
I've got a point.
I think the double play, though, really gives us a great opportunity here.
Uh, yeah, I, I, too, head into the process of it.
Good.
And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,
Well, I'm not sure he'd be able to make it.
Oh, he'd take it in a minute.
Hell yeah.
Hell yes, he'd take it.
In a minute.
In a minute.
The only thing I'd be worried about him was busing.
He'd be all right on the criminal law.
Now, just think of that a minute.
Well, if he's a Catholic.
If he isn't a Catholic, forget it.
Well, you're such a great lawyer.
Yeah.
Well, just put it in the back of your head, will you?
I will indeed.
Let me, I think I'll give Bill a call.
Just, just, he's knowing what a Roger is.
He knows it well.
We'll see what he can do.
Is that all right?
Yeah.
Good.
What bill?
Want a liberal?
Yeah.
Okay.
How old is Walsh?
Well, he conserved for 1975.
Of course, that would be a Metler University plane with a bar, and it would fill in beautifully for Harlan.
But I want to be sure that he's known as a conservative.
If there's anything tomorrow, I'll be available all day long.
I've got a heavy schedule, but call me if anything develops, will you?
Well, give me a call, will you?
Good.
Okay.
Thank you.
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