Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 009-101
Date: Monday, September 20, 1971 at 7:40 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/009-101
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417189821 (NAID 417189821)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] Hello?
[0:04] Hi, John?
[0:06] I didn't want to interrupt you while you were talking earlier, but how'd you get along with those fellows?
[0:09] Did you make a sale, I hope?
[0:10] I think so.
[0:11] I'm finding that I really work well, show up pretty good.
[0:18] We have to realize, John, that, you know, the House and Senator, well, at least the House, is so damn strong for this fellow.
[0:24] We're going to have a hell of a time if we don't appoint him.
[0:27] He recognized that.
[0:44] I think he had it in our hands as well.
[0:45] Because he's been in, he's worked this hill before, you know.
[0:46] He's done some human service for it.
[0:47] Right.
[0:47] What the end result of it was, we thought, you know,
[0:55] God, I don't know.
[1:15] Well, I guess not.
[1:16] I guess not.
[1:18] I'll tell you why I think it's a risk we shouldn't buy.
[1:20] I think it looks like a petulant president.
[1:23] pushing somebody again.
[1:25] That's the point.
[1:26] It's fine for Hainsworth, but it's not good for the presidency, you know.
[1:35] Well, uh, the fact that you changed the Senate would put us through, uh, wouldn't have probably detracted as much.
[1:42] I think it would.
[1:43] I just think it looks a little bit, uh, that we're just trying to prove to these fellows that they were wrong.
[1:51] Yeah.
[1:51] All right.
[1:51] And they, uh,
[1:52] Did you ever find out his age?
[2:10] Great, great, all right, you're all right that way.
[2:25] Uh, no, no problem.
[2:26] Uh, the absolute fact of the matter is, that's very, very little loss.
[2:27] I know, I know, none.
[2:27] Not a hell of a lesson I have to deal with.
[2:31] Absolutely.
[2:31] No question about it.
[2:31] At least I was the one who screamed cold a couple of times, and he'd never been.
[2:33] That's true.
[2:33] With your permission, what I thought we'd do is to take the probes.
[2:35] Right.
[3:01] Right.
[3:01] Right.
[3:01] Right.
[3:04] Ed could see the point of the Judiciary Committee experience as being enormously important.
[3:25] Yes, he knows that.
[3:26] He agrees with us now that we're well prepared.
[3:27] We've got all the cops, the track workers, the service on the Judiciary Committee, the Constitutional Court, and all of that.
[3:29] He agrees with us.
[3:30] And he's a good soul to give a lot of credit for selling that.
[3:32] And if he doesn't, then we can roll without him.
[3:35] We may have to do it.
[3:38] But what we want to do is we have to do it that way.
[3:43] We've got to get the Senate House to about two-fifths of them endorsing him.
[3:56] Is he proposed?
[3:57] I think you should let him go, then, if he could start a little program.
[4:02] And so, look, John, the bar raises these questions, and if John could sort of develop and get a certain number of names, and I would also tell Ford in the house to let him go, would you do that?
[4:14] Give Jerry a call and say, look... Well, your evaluation, see, as I told you, I've not been...
[4:25] quite that impressive because I haven't really seen him in action.
[4:27] But on the other hand, he's a young man and he's a good lawyer and good guy.
[4:45] That's what we need in that court.
[4:46] Quite a judge.
[4:47] No.
[4:53] No, sir.
[5:03] That's right.
[5:04] No, sir.
[5:04] Absolutely.
[5:04] Now, on the other thing, John, on the second one, if it comes, can I urge you to try to lay them on everything to see if you can find a Catholic, a good Catholic,
[5:19] Oh, Christ, no.
[5:20] That's what I mean.
[5:26] They got Brennan.
[5:27] No.
[5:28] But you don't have an honest Italian, do you?
[5:42] Opposed?
[5:42] No.
[5:43] Oh, Christ, no.
[5:43] He's a Protestant.
[5:43] Rich and everything else.
[5:44] All right.
[5:44] Well, take a look at the Catholics, will you?
[5:52] The state doesn't bother me.
[5:54] If he's young enough, the state would be good.
[5:56] Massachusetts would be good.
[5:58] You know, we'd get booked at some point.
[6:01] Is he a Catholic?
[6:08] How old is he?
[6:11] You think he's too old to me?
[6:15] Well, if he could be just 55, that's about right.
[6:20] That gives him 15 years.
[6:27] Well, you look for one, will you?
[6:32] I do.
[6:33] Politically, we're going to gain a lot more from a Catholic.
[6:37] Look, the Protestants will just figure it through.
[6:39] If he's a conservative, a Catholic conservative is better than a Protestant conservative.
[6:43] We really need that.
[6:45] Well, the point is, it'll mean more to the Catholics than it will to the Protestants.
[6:51] The Protestants expect to have things.
[6:52] The Catholics don't.
[6:56] When are you going to sell that Jewish piece?
[6:58] Well, about after I die.
[7:02] You know and I know there aren't any.
[7:06] There are no conservatives out there yet.
[7:09] Never.
[7:09] I've got a point.
[7:12] I think the double play, though, really gives us a great opportunity here.
[7:37] Uh, yeah, I, I, too, head into the process of it.
[7:38] Good.
[7:38] And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,
[7:42] Well, I'm not sure he'd be able to make it.
[7:58] Oh, he'd take it in a minute.
[7:59] Hell yeah.
[7:59] Hell yes, he'd take it.
[8:00] In a minute.
[8:02] In a minute.
[8:02] The only thing I'd be worried about him was busing.
[8:06] He'd be all right on the criminal law.
[8:06] Now, just think of that a minute.
[8:07] Well, if he's a Catholic.
[8:07] If he isn't a Catholic, forget it.
[8:09] Well, you're such a great lawyer.
[8:31] Yeah.
[8:31] Well, just put it in the back of your head, will you?
[8:34] I will indeed.
[8:35] Let me, I think I'll give Bill a call.
[8:36] Just, just, he's knowing what a Roger is.
[8:37] He knows it well.
[8:38] We'll see what he can do.
[8:39] Is that all right?
[9:06] Yeah.
[9:06] Good.
[9:07] What bill?
[9:07] Want a liberal?
[9:07] Yeah.
[9:07] Okay.
[9:07] How old is Walsh?
[9:08] Well, he conserved for 1975.
[9:19] Of course, that would be a Metler University plane with a bar, and it would fill in beautifully for Harlan.
[9:26] But I want to be sure that he's known as a conservative.
[9:29] If there's anything tomorrow, I'll be available all day long.
[9:55] I've got a heavy schedule, but call me if anything develops, will you?
[9:57] Well, give me a call, will you?
[10:12] Good.
[10:12] Okay.
[10:12] Thank you.