Conversation 009-112

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Yeah.

Yes, sir.

Well, Pat, we're not going to have a live telecast on this, so it sort of changes its character a bit.

Okay.

It doesn't change the answers any, but I meant that it's just going to be a... they're going to do a little filming, so it's just for the local audience, basically, that we're doing it.

I see.

Right.

Now, a couple of points that I think that we need some...

I think when you talk about the effect on the foreign car imports and so forth, if you were to call McCracken, and don't tell him to give you a paper on it, but just give him a couple of times, he could probably give you some statistics with regard to since this has happened,

I mean, this is what has happened.

You know what I mean?

As a result of our action, the foreign car imports are down 5% and so much are up 10%.

We hope it will continue, et cetera.

I like your line that the American auto position is the strongest competitive position.

Second, with regard to the

effect of the surcharge, et cetera, abroad.

Don't bother with that because I'm having that prepared by Connolly and Kissinger and people of that, you know what I mean?

They're preparing.

And Arthur Burns, there's some special stuff there that I have to handle myself.

An area which needs to be strengthened where you've talked to Flanagan, but I don't think he's the one that really, well, he understands, but he isn't the one to get it, where we need better answers, is you ought to go to Stein and

and say, now look, they're going to ask, what is the situation with regard to phase two?

What do we expect?

What can you tell us is going to happen?

And I've given a general answer that it's going to be, you've got to have teeth and a jawbone and teeth and all that.

But see what Stein says.

Also, with regard to, I'd like to get from Stein,

or sort of his analysis of, well, how is it working to date?

You've got an analysis in here you had from SAFIRE.

I think Stein is very good with words, and also he knows the issue better.

Okay, fine.

And tell him that I'd like for him to put his mind as to what he would like for me to say about Phase II at this time in Detroit.

Okay.

Now, let's see, the other things...

cars.

Okay, I think that's about all there is.

Now, as I understand, on busing, Pontiac has a case in court.

The Pontiac situation has gone into court, right.

In the local courts.

That's not the federal courts, of course.

Right.

That's my understanding.

Well, double-check.

I'll get to you.

Don't bother.

I don't care.

Just so it's in court, that's all.

So I won't bother commenting on that and just comment generally on that.

Right.

Here's my concern there is that they'll use a lead and hang it over a Pontiac store, you know.

That's right.

So I've got to say that I won't comment on... Rather than on specifics, let me get the general thing, you know.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, I basically got to say that only to the extent that it is required by law.

Right.

By a court order to do, I think busing should be used.

But you think that's really what you get down to?

Right, right.

Because the line actually between my line and Muskie's is not as clear.

It's just the way he said it.

He starts at the other end.

He says, well, I think busing is a legitimate tool.

But I'm against it.

I start at the other end.

I said, I'm against busing, but the law requires it to the extent.

minimum extent necessary, I, of course, will not resist it.

Right?

Right.

It's purely a question of tone.

Well, we've got to push Muskie's emphasis up in the headlines.

That's a problem.

That's right.

Yeah, it's got to be, well, I think it's probably going to get some play in the South.

I think, well, that's something you could really move by various statements exaggerating his position, and then Muskie would come back, sort of drawing it back, and it identifies him with it.

Yeah, the thing to do really is rather to

is to praise him, have some civil rights people praise him for his defensive busing.

That's the way to really get that, you know.

That's much the better way than to have people attack him for it, is to praise him for his defensive busing, see?

And I don't know if you've got any people who could do that or not, but I would think that'd be very clever.

And let's see, one other thing here.

Another point, just wait a second while I turn through here.

Well, you can remark to Stein that one thing about the large and small corporations point that he should make, you know, that there's a sort of a convoluted answer in here, which I don't want to get into, but Stein will know how to handle that, you know, as to whether or not the phase two is going to call, which it has to, of course, be limited to only the major things because we don't have the bureaucracy to handle anything more than that.

And that, of course, is all we want to bite off.

But Stein will find a way to...

to get at that point.

And I think his language will be pretty good.

Have you checked, I guess you've checked pretty well to see what Michigan

might ask, or we got everything in there.

Yeah, we've got, I had Mort go through all the papers, and I reflected that in those memos, and also in the big questions that are sort of Michigan-oriented.

You know, the parochate thing.

You never know what these people will ask.

Yeah, you never know, and see when that committee gets there.

I don't know whether the Economic Club may ask everything about economics.

I hope not.

Well, I don't think so, because I think they've got a panel which is a control group, and the control group would sit there, of course, and say, Jesus, we've got too many questions on economics, let's mix it up.

and then you're liable to get on a variety of different things.

That's why it's sort of hard to predict what they could do.

Yeah, well, we don't want to try to, I don't care what they predict, but I just hope the control group gets a few questions that are of interest to the general public.

Well, they've got to throw in some political stuff.

Political, well, foreign policy.

Yeah.

Has the group been told that the question is not just limited to economics?

That's my understanding.

I can double-check on that.

Well, be sure that gets out to them that this is an open question period on domestic policy, foreign policy.

Right.

Domestic and foreign policy.

I'd put it that way.

Just leave it there so that you don't say politics.

They'll get into that property anyway.

Right.

Supreme Court.

Oh, on the court, I saw your memo, and you can be sure we're on the right track.

Okay, fine, sir.

We can't tell anybody for obvious reasons, but we've got to keep it awfully closely held to...

The Poff thing, as you probably are aware, its problem is that he did not practice much law, you know.

Right.

He just went right into Congress, so we're trying to get, if we want to, we don't want to walk in there and have the damn people of the Senate turn him down for that reason, but there we're going to try to enlist Manny Seller and a few others to say, well, a Judiciary Committee service 10 years is a,

equivalent see right sir right right right and uh but uh it seems to be moving all right but uh i think actually that that's bound to have a very salutary effect on our southern friends don't you think because substituting substituting pa for black god it's uh here you gotta you gotta

a strict constructionist conservative who signed the Southern Manifesto.

And frankly, it's fine.

Let some of those that are, the libs vote against him on that.

That'll really split the Democrats in the Senate, I would imagine.

Yeah.

Right down the line on that thing.

Yeah.

Just hope to Christ we get the votes.

Yeah.

Well, okay.

So did Wilbur Mills.

He signed it, you know.

He did?

Yep.

Wilbur Mills signed the Southern Manifesto, so what the hell.

You've got pretty good company.

We ought to get a good list of the guys that did.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Okay, sir.

All right.