Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 10 › Conversation 010-004
Nixon phone call with Colson on Supreme Court appointments and Vietnam War
Friday, September 24, 1971 · 1:52 PM–2:02 PM ET · White House Telephone · 10 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson reviewed the positive public and market reaction to the President's recent media appearance and discussed strategies to maintain political momentum. They assessed the diminishing impact of the Vietnam War as a campaign issue and strategized on how to leverage upcoming Supreme Court appointments to solidify support among conservatives. Colson also committed to orchestrating public pressure from the White House to ensure both judicial vacancies are filled by conservative candidates.
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Transcript (AI-generated)
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Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Now, I think your fellow Shore may have stuck his neck out a little too far.
He sure did.
I read the full article.
I haven't got a transcript of his speech, but I've already been in touch with Stanton.
Stanton's still there?
Yep, he's still there.
Well, he's still running the show for the next year.
Oh, operating capacity.
It is good.
This is really something.
He's really out of touch.
He had the right one here.
Well, I think if I do this right, I can get him yanked out of here.
I've been looking for the opportunity to be open, and he's given it to me.
And I'm just going to call a chip with Stanton and say, by God, this fellow should not be reporting, certainly from the White House, who feels that it's not a good part.
Oh, and I raised that with him.
All right.
Right.
I think we can recommend it.
Well, you hit the ball over the fence again on this nice little question.
Well, the questions were very felt.
I had to drag in the answers.
I don't know.
I could tell that.
I could tell that.
The questions are very muddy.
They're out there in the country, and they just aren't that defined.
Well, it's just like a press conference.
When you get the sharp, tough, hostile press, it's much easier for you to really turn on.
Right.
Then when you've got to kind of pull the stuff out.
But it went very well, and I've had three or four calls this morning, volunteers, like Hope Lewis called.
He listened to it and just thought she was superb.
And you were in total command, which I think one of the networks made that point.
But it was very good, very firm.
Well, we got an issue for all of the profits.
We were trying to extend the three, and it was going to be done.
We went back to the interest rates.
We noticed I left a little hooker in there.
I thought, well, we have to look at the interest rates.
We want to be able to throw up that cost of hooker.
And also, what I figured was the profits going to quit the market.
I started up this morning, and so that gave it a very healthy kick.
Did it go up a little?
Oh, it was up about four points when I checked it.
reassurance on it.
It'll come back.
There's a little wait and see going on.
And also I made my prediction.
I think that was an excellent thing.
You put that very well.
I had dinner with Howard Smith last night.
I try to see him every few months because he's
And he, in a room which was mixed as a Democratic Party, both Republican and Democrat, he very loudly announced to me across the dinner table, he said, well, your man is certainly in good shape.
And he said, in fact, I don't see how any Democrat can possibly touch him.
He really preempted the field.
He's got it with the economics.
He's got it with the pharmacology.
He was very up on it.
Well, next week, not next week, the week after, he was in Vietnam.
That's the one area they can't touch anymore.
They can squeal about Vietnam.
But did you notice there wasn't one question in Vietnam?
I was waiting for China to touch Vietnam.
China was
That's right.
And you won't get them.
The government got a little play because of this sensationalism of the riot being created.
But we have, as far as the demonstrators are concerned, 5,000 or 2,000.
But they didn't have to.
No.
Howard made that point last night.
He said the issue is absolutely gone.
It's totally gone.
As far as the negatives are concerned, over the course of the next few years, it's turned into a very spook.
very strong.
But he thinks it's gone as a negative?
Totally.
What about the Q election?
No, we talked about that.
He said it's just that he had his son with him who fought for the amendment.
Oh, I know.
It was badly moved.
Yeah, a great young fellow at the dinner of the key to an influence.
Oh, yes, I understand.
And he's depressed over it.
He said, I wish people would be more interested.
He said, it's just terrible.
He said, you can't get people who are decrying in their isolation.
But his point was that
But no matter what... Howard knows, Smith knows that I'm fighting in the legislation every week.
He sure does.
And he would.
He's applauded the toughened line in terms of the policies in the world.
But he was, no, he was making the point that there's no way people will give a goddamn who's running Vietnam.
They don't care about anything except that we're out there.
If they think we're out there and the war is over, there's no way you can, that issue can get rid of them.
Well, that's one they can't use, but we've got to hammer it down.
Right.
The CPI didn't play too bad.
No, I think it played all right.
It did very well.
It was buried yesterday, I thought.
Yeah, yeah.
I was a little taken aback with that damn story.
I didn't think so.
It's so bad.
There's only nobody asking about that last night.
I was loaded for that.
Well, I was certain you'd get it, but it just shows.
It really didn't.
Oh, that's right.
They are.
Did you see the, uh, did anybody send in to you the Wall Street Journal article yesterday on your time?
No, I didn't.
The most superb article that, uh, I'm taking care of for hailing it all over the goddamn country.
It, it is really the most bullish piece I've seen yet.
Send it, uh...
I'll, I'll send it in to you.
Yeah, yeah.
Send it, uh, send it a little over to me, yeah.
I'll tell you, that's tough.
We're going to appoint two conservatives.
I'm sure of it.
That's going to do more for us with the conservatives.
You think so?
Oh, yeah.
They'll like possible.
Yep.
They'll love it.
They'll love it.
Especially if we get just enough opposition from each other.
We will.
It is.
And then the other one will be conservative, too.
I can show you.
I just wrote it out today.
No, listen.
No, no.
Well, I think not.
I'd go Jewish if I had a conservative.
If I had Henry Kissinger as a judge, I'd put him on.
I don't have him.
Any statistic that would have heard that answer from the judge would appreciate it, I'm sure.
Well, number one, every lawyer would, like I came to admire Frank Berger.
And Brandeis.
All of us.
You did that beautifully.
And remembering, too, that Frank Berger had never served an employer and never practiced law except for two years.
Brandeis never served an employer.
He was just a great lawyer.
So what the hell?
That gave us room to appoint a law professor
A lawyer, or as I said, a member of the Senate Judiciary.
Sure, sure.
No, that was beautiful.
Or Marker Mitchell.
That's been a good response.
Well, that's it.
Really, that brings the conservatives back.
You know, the thing that they will look at that as the big issue, because that's shaping policy.
Why don't you do this?
Tell them.
Great tug-of-war with the White House staff.
It would not be a good idea.
Not the White House staff.
Some members of the Senate are urging it.
Because there are two vacancies, one liberal, one conservative.
That's right.
He's being urged to split it.
And we want some drum fire from the White House.
Okay.
That'll be excellent.
I'll do it.
Fine.
Thank you, sir.
NARA Description
On September 24, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 1:52 pm to 2:02 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 010-004 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 10-4
Date: September 24, 1971
Time: 1:52 pm - 2:02 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
Daniel L. Schorr
-Speech
-Frank Stanton
-Colson's projected action
-Reaction
Press
-President’s statements in Detroit, September 23, 1971
-Press questions
-Reaction
-Hobart D. (“Hobe”) Lewis
Stock market
-Reaction to President’s statements
Colson's schedule
-Howard K. Smith
-Previous night’s dinner
-Prediction of President’s re-election
Media
-Vietnam
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-George S. McGovern
-Nguyen Van Thieu election
-Smith
-Son
-Service in Vietnam
-Health
-Vietnam
-Press questions
-Wall Street Journal article on the economy
Supreme Court appointments
-Conservatives
-Richard H. Poff
-Jewish
-Conservative
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Lawyer
-Louis D. Brandeis, Felix Frankfurter
-Types
-Martha (Beall) Mitchell
-Conservative appointment
-Opposition viewAlso recorded on September 24, 1971
- 578-008 12:07 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Melvin R. Laird, Brig. Gen. Cunningham C. Bryant, Brig. Gen. Benjamin L. Hunton, Adm. Rear Adm. Samuel Gravely, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:07 pm to 12:23 pm.
- 578-009 12:23 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Michael ("White Antelope") Naranjo, Mrs. Larry Underwood, and Donald E. Johnson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:23 pm to 12:32 pm.
- 578-010 12:32 PM · 24 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:32 pm.
- 578-013 12:32 PM · 28 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:32 pm and 12:44 pm.
- 578-011 12:46 PM · 19 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, John N. Mitchell, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 1:32 pm.
- 010-001 12:59 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:59 pm and 1:11 pm.
- 010-002 1:11 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 1:11 pm to 1:13 pm.
- 010-003 1:13 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:13 pm and 1:52 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 010-004, September 24, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/010-004 (accessed October 12, 2026).