Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 10 › Conversation 010-052

Nixon phone call with Colson on Senate and Federal pay raise

Tuesday, October 5, 1971 · 9:25 PM–9:44 PM ET · White House Telephone · 19 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation010-052 on Tape 10 (tape position 01:37:33–01:56:12)StartTuesday, October 5, 1971 at 9:25 PMEndTuesday, October 5, 1971 at 9:44 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 010-052 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles W. Colson discussed the political landscape in the Senate, specifically concerning upcoming votes on a federal pay raise and the administration's ability to block or compromise on legislation. The two analyzed the motivations of Democratic rivals, including Hubert Humphrey, Edmund Muskie, and Edward Kennedy, while evaluating the potential impact of their public comments and media perception on Nixon's administration. They also reviewed recent polling data from Louis Harris and George Gallup, and discussed the economic outlook, particularly the upcoming unemployment and wholesale price figures and their influence on labor relations.

Audio

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NARA Description

On October 5, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 9:25 pm to 9:44 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 010-052 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 10-52

Date: October 5, 1971
Time: 9:25 pm - 9:44 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

     Salutations

     Henry A. Kissinger's activities

     Federal pay raise

     Senate
          -Robert J. Dole
          -Post Office and Civil Service Committee
          -Scenario for action
                -Morris K. Udall
                -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
                -Quorum for vote
                -Effect of People’s Republic of China [PRC] initiative
          -Humphrey
                -Edward M. Kennedy
                -Motivation
                     -Relations with labor groups
          -Edmund S. Muskie
          -Edward M. Kennedy
                -Media
                -Compared with John F. Kennedy
          -Humphrey
          -Muskie
          -PRC trip

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 4m 5s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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     Polls
             -Louis Harris
                  -Nixon and Edward Kennedy
                  -Schedule
                  -Work
             -George H. Gallup
             -Harris
                  -Humphrey
             -Harris
                  -Economy

     Economy
         -Unemployment
         -Wholesale prices
         -Albert E. Sindlinger
         -Labor
              -James D. Hodgson
                    -George Meany
                          -Polls by Harris
                          -Views of union members

     Meeting of the International Monetary Fund [IMF]

     Senate
          -Quorum

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 9 minutes of this recording (about 48% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
Good evening, sir.
Well, how was your first day back?
You survived it?
Well, I think so.
I felt a lot better than before I left.
Yeah, yeah.
Good to get that rest.
Right, right.
I...
Seemed like a very, uh, you know, that Kissinger thing really, really stabbed through to these people, didn't it?
Oh, yes.
It was a great, upbeat day.
And to have that boat yesterday on the... Yeah.
Yeah.
What is the situation in the Senate?
I wrote back with Boal.
Because he's been away, he said he's actually sort of pessimistic.
I'm not so sure, but I don't know.
What is it?
Well, they couldn't get it for him.
They had the Senate bill for him, which they would have to get in order to report it.
It's the same kind of resolution they reported to the House, which is a great effort on its own.
All right.
It's Thursday by statute.
It's the last day of the product act.
And if I get a quorum tomorrow, I can report out a veto resolution.
and I've said that I couldn't act on that tomorrow, or at least, if one gets enough that I get, and I think it's very, very intelligent of me to say that they will not try to do that to me.
That's right.
They will not do that to me.
They will try to have something that they can compromise, but you don't have to have your desire to have that position to require that whatever you've done to your private sector is going to be done to the public.
Yeah.
We're not allowing that across the board.
So that would have very little meaning, and that would also have to be in the members of the Algerian community.
It would probably be a killing message if they get a quorum in the morning.
Can they keep the Republicans away?
Well, that's one thing we know is going to happen.
It could be a killing message.
That already happened in the morning.
There's a lot of pressure on them, but I think that the win will take hours until almost the business is ready to vote.
The Democrats are not impressed.
They want a lot more Democratic votes.
Well, I think they've got to figure, too, the voting against the president now with the China thing isn't very good.
Well, I think that's right.
But they go full out.
We'll have to see if we can clear it.
We'll have to see if we can.
We're going to come right at him Right
I thought one little straw in the room was Humphrey's talk today.
I saw him at the Star tonight.
Wasn't that fascinating?
But, you know, he must be sort of putting his finger in the air, his left finger, and figuring... Well, you know...
But here's taking on Teddy.
Very curious.
What's your think?
Well, it's the second time he's done it.
He did it once before.
But Teddy made that, I thought, very rash and very intemperate statement that he would prolong the tour.
Oh, yeah.
Why do you think he's doing it?
Also, he's talking to the labor groups.
But of course, on the other hand, you don't see Muskie stepping up to a thing like this at all.
He just doesn't say anything about it.
Smart politician and deep down he's got some decency to him.
That's right.
That's right.
Right.
The president's wrong, but he isn't that wrong.
That's right.
No, I think he realized that Kennedy was an idiot for saying that.
Have any editorialists taken on Kennedy on that thing?
I didn't see them.
They did, but it was a terrible statement.
Good God, if I'd have said a thing like that, they'd kill me.
There was a great deal of editorial comments this weekend, and I guess today there's a lot of people who want to hear what's going on.
A number of these things are scary to the first, but now they'll be even more scary to the second.
He had a very effective game up here in the last half.
He had a very effective game up here in the last half.
He's not as cold as Jack.
And as cold.
Jack's pretty cold.
We'll see a lot of reactions back to that.
Yeah.
Up this kind of, kind of straight out of the ground from south.
Also saying the China trip was a gimmick.
He took him on on that.
That's right.
No, I'm sorry.

— 4 min 6 s with no transcribed speech —

I think that you ought to bring Harris in about Wednesday or Thursday of next week.
I think that would be helpful.
All right.
To him to give him a little boost because he's really good.
How about Wednesday?
Oh, it's not that good.
Oh, all right.
Thursday.
He's a little bit felt.
Yeah.
Wednesday afternoon.
Wednesday or Thursday of next week would be great.
He would give him a little shot there.
He's really good.
His figures are actually, you know what he's done over the years, very easily, he's published the information he wanted to publish.
He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't.
He doesn't publish the stuff that he wanted to publish.
A week from, a week after that, he's going to publish his trial media popularity poll, which will show... What about Gallup?
I haven't gotten a reading on Gallup, President.
He should be about ready for approval.
He may come up.
Who knows?
Well, I think he has to come up a bit.
About where it was.
That's where he had it mentioned.
Well, I would, uh, I would hope he does a couple of good things.
Boo!
If Lew is up, he's got to be up as well.
That's right.
And Lew is absolutely content with what he's doing.
Because he's got a very strong muscle.
I think Humphrey reflected that for a minute.
He had this whole article that went down here at the bottom of his book.
Acknowledged that he had gained considerable force in the fight for Lincoln.
And the Democrats were okay with that address.
Oh sure, but he acknowledges that you gained a lot of ground and a lot of support.
Thank you.
Lou also has another interesting statement.
He says that with your positive-negative overall approval, in exactly every situation, the question is on how well you're handling the economy and how well you're handling 4.5.
What's the
The unemployment thing, one second.
We have that this Friday.
I'll have the figures tomorrow.
Well, you never know about that thing.
No, you don't.
The last month or so, we will have the wholesale prices on Thursday.
And I have added the price amount, not in the normal way, except the breakout shows, but that's the wholesale prices.
It may not be good.
Well, the feeling is that it will be pretty hard for most wholesale prices to begin with.
So we should have a breakout of those things.
It's going to be helpful.
The important thing is how much price.
You've got to figure the employment thing out.
I don't know.
It probably isn't going to help us.
Well, stay in the game.
Somewhere along the line, they've got to catch up to us.
Yeah, terrible.
Well, 1180 just isn't any better, I don't know.
Good.
Good.
It would be very helpful if, as it were, you know, if you wish you would not have to leave the back, because they would give you a shot at the end, and it would be helpful.
As Hudson saw me today, and Jim came down on the office today, he said he would be very encouraged, and he said, you know, we'll protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you, protect you.
He's gonna have a hell of a time not doing it, I'll tell you that.
Yeah.
Smoking a cigar and pour it on.
It just sort of looks like an old politician.
Pretty good enemy.
Yeah, I think if we, if he really, if he were to turn very far, which, as you say, just doesn't make any noise, he'd be an elephant.
You know, Jim thinks he's, from the media today, he thinks he's a fighter.
He's a fighter.
He's a fighter with his wife.
And I think if he is, that's the best for us.
If eventually we have to get him out, he'll be out.
That's true.
Right.
I just hope that the Senate, at least, I just hope we can flip that ban.
Of course, that would be quite a blow if they... Well, if they do, at least we'll be mixed.
Well, yeah, I think the purpose would be...
We'll know tomorrow, but I think the fact that they couldn't get it for us today, we can't get it now.
And Bush, you can always talk.
Yeah.
We should have him be represented.
The teacher would be really fortunate to have him here.
Maybe they can talk it to them.
They could.
That's what they can do.
Well, we're going to try that.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
okay okay

Also recorded on October 5, 1971

  • 010-047 5:20 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 5:20 pm to 5:21 pm.
  • 010-048 5:21 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:21 pm and 5:29 pm.
  • 010-049 5:29 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Richard H. Poff talked on the telephone from 5:29 pm to 5:33 pm.
  • 010-050 5:33 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:33 pm and 9:25 pm.
  • 585-016 5:39 PM · 35 sec — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:39 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 010-051 9:25 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:25 pm.
  • 010-053 9:44 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:44 pm and 9:50 pm.
  • 010-054 9:50 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George E. Allen talked on the telephone from 9:50 pm to 9:51 pm.

All 40 conversations from October 5, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 010-052, October 5, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/010-052 (accessed November 12, 2026).