{"conversationCode":"011-064","tapeNumber":11,"conversationNumber":64,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-011-064","startDateTime":"1971-10-12T17:55:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-10-12T17:59:00.000Z","startDate":"12-Oct-1971","startTime":"1:55 PM","endDate":"12-Oct-1971","endTime":"1:59 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On October 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 1:55 pm to 1:59 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 011-064 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 011-064\n\n Date: October 12, 1971\n\n Time: 1:55 pm - 1:59 pm\n Location: White House Telephone\n\n The President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n [See Conversation No. 588-18]\n\n        The President's announcement\n             -US-Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR] summit\n                  -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n                  -Edmund S. Muskie\n                  -Henry A. Kissinger\n                  -Congressional reaction\n\n        Economy\n             -George Meany\n                   -George P. Shultz\n                   -The President's telephone call\n                   -Henry A. Kissinger's telephone call\n                   -Conversation with Shultz\n                        -Position\n             -Inflation\n                   -Wage settlements\n\n      Louis P. Harris\n\nRichard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n              -Meeting with Colson\n              -Meeting with the President, October 13, 1971\n                  -Edmund S. Muskie\n                  -Harvard\n                  -Kissinger","filename":["011-064.mp3"],"tapeStart":"01:33:42","tapeEnd":"01:37:24","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"011-063","nextCode":"011-065","transcript":[{"start":0.07,"end":3.37,"text":"Mr. Colson, sir."},{"start":5.01,"end":5.11,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":5.13,"end":5.25,"text":"Ready?"},{"start":5.27,"end":5.43,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":5.69,"end":7.63,"text":"Congratulations, Mr. President."},{"start":7.66,"end":11.2,"text":"Well, I thought that'd shake you up a little."},{"start":11.22,"end":11.72,"text":"Oh, Jesus."},{"start":11.98,"end":15.16,"text":"I went out and listened to your press conference, and I must say it was superb."},{"start":16.31,"end":21.13,"text":"I leaned over to hold him during it, and I said, how would you like to be managing Ed Muskie's campaign right now?"},{"start":21.15,"end":22.17,"text":"God, you just..."},{"start":23.29,"end":25.79,"text":"It's breathtaking, really."},{"start":25.81,"end":28.13,"text":"Well, you've got to give old... Henry just came in."},{"start":28.37,"end":30.31,"text":"You've got to give him a lot of credit."},{"start":31.55,"end":37.44,"text":"We're playing a game of tightrope back, but I'll tell you one thing, though."},{"start":37.5,"end":43.35,"text":"These people on the other side, when we got those congressional group in, I think Henry will agree, they didn't know what the hell to say."},{"start":44.89,"end":46.73,"text":"Well, there's not much they can say."},{"start":47.11,"end":51.16,"text":"You've so preempted the field next year with... Yeah, for a while."},{"start":51.18,"end":53.26,"text":"Of course, things can fall between then, but..."},{"start":53.58,"end":56.32,"text":"And I said, I think it's good meaning he came along."},{"start":58.22,"end":60.2,"text":"He made his own conditions, but we don't care."},{"start":60.3,"end":61.98,"text":"Well, he tried to."},{"start":62.1,"end":80.31,"text":"Actually, the best thing that happened was that statement that we all worked on yesterday, we were able to release because even his self-serving reply to it, or his self-serving statement, doesn't have any credibility because what we laid out yesterday was exactly the terms we'd had from the beginning."},{"start":80.33,"end":82.15,"text":"We didn't give him a thing, but..."},{"start":82.4,"end":83.24,"text":"I said that, too."},{"start":83.3,"end":87.11,"text":"Well... Did George Shultz tell you about his call?"},{"start":87.83,"end":88.81,"text":"I called him."},{"start":88.83,"end":89.61,"text":"Oh, you called me?"},{"start":89.77,"end":90.35,"text":"I called him."},{"start":90.77,"end":91.23,"text":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"start":91.25,"end":92.51,"text":"I called him and thanked him."},{"start":92.53,"end":93.23,"text":"Excellent."},{"start":93.25,"end":93.74,"text":"What the hell?"},{"start":94.1,"end":95.02,"text":"Excellent."},{"start":95.1,"end":100.41,"text":"Incidentally, Henry called him and informed me about this announcement, did you know, too?"},{"start":101.33,"end":101.67,"text":"Excellent."},{"start":102.35,"end":103.57,"text":"Just to keep him off balance."},{"start":104.01,"end":104.57,"text":"Well, that does."},{"start":104.65,"end":105.23,"text":"Well, he called..."},{"start":105.3,"end":109.72,"text":"When he heard you had another statement this afternoon on labor, he called Shultz almost pleading..."},{"start":110.5,"end":112.84,"text":"for you to accept his statement and not to repudiate it."},{"start":114.4,"end":121.11,"text":"So in fact, regardless of his outside bluster, he has come crawling to us."},{"start":121.35,"end":122.93,"text":"He was in a box."},{"start":123.13,"end":127.36,"text":"Some of the business people, we've got to just keep them on the box."},{"start":127.38,"end":130.22,"text":"It's just having him in the game is what's important."},{"start":131.09,"end":132.69,"text":"The business side, I don't worry about a bit."},{"start":132.73,"end":133.49,"text":"We can handle them."},{"start":133.65,"end":134.73,"text":"The thing that"},{"start":135.93,"end":142.01,"text":"Even if this thing sometime blows up, which Schultz and others are convinced it will, I... Well, I'm not convinced it will."},{"start":142.07,"end":142.71,"text":"No, I'm not either."},{"start":143.03,"end":147.96,"text":"As Manny said today, if we can get the inflation down to three and a half, we'd be doing well."},{"start":148.26,"end":153.47,"text":"Mr. President, the thing that everybody loses sight of is that the biggest wage settlements are behind us."},{"start":153.73,"end":157.75,"text":"And that next spring, they're going to be a hell of a lot less anyway."},{"start":158.23,"end":162.56,"text":"And my point is that if we can make this thing work, even..."},{"start":163.36,"end":166.67,"text":"just make it appear to be working."},{"start":166.97,"end":169.99,"text":"The results next spring, we're going to get the credit for it."},{"start":170.33,"end":171.53,"text":"And that's the big thing."},{"start":171.63,"end":176.82,"text":"But I think your announcement today on... Well, this will be a good stage for your meeting with Harris."},{"start":178.16,"end":179,"text":"He's coming in tomorrow."},{"start":179.18,"end":181.75,"text":"He's coming in to see you at..."},{"start":181.91,"end":182.93,"text":"I'll bring him in at 4.30."},{"start":183.01,"end":184.87,"text":"I'll send you some background material."},{"start":185.05,"end":185.99,"text":"Good deal."},{"start":186.01,"end":188.09,"text":"We'll wait to see him then."},{"start":188.11,"end":189.63,"text":"God, you're riding awful high."},{"start":190.08,"end":192.04,"text":"Well, it's just, you never know what..."},{"start":192.25,"end":195.84,"text":"people, but at least it'll disturb Muskie."},{"start":196.46,"end":200.73,"text":"Well, it's much more significant than that, really, Mr. President."},{"start":200.87,"end":206.7,"text":"Of course it is, and the point is that... Any jackass can see that, even the bastards at Harvard."},{"start":206.72,"end":210.16,"text":"Well, I tell you, if the..."},{"start":210.52,"end":212.04,"text":"I can tell Henry's with you."},{"start":212.71,"end":218.74,"text":"If the election were tomorrow, or next week, or a month from now, I'd give them about three states at the most."},{"start":218.78,"end":219.38,"text":"Okay."},{"start":220.78,"end":221.62,"text":"Great, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the political fallout and strategic success of the President's recent announcement regarding a planned USSR summit, noting its effectiveness in sidelining Democratic challenger Edmund Muskie. The pair also reviews the administration's leverage over labor leader George Meany regarding wage settlements and ongoing anti-inflationary measures. To capitalize on this momentum, they confirm an upcoming meeting between the President and pollster Louis Harris to assess the administration's improved standing.","topics":["USSR Summit","Edmund Muskie","George Meany","Inflation","Wage Settlements","Louis Harris"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T23:21:10.322Z"},"topicSlugs":["ussr-summit","edmund-muskie","george-meany","inflation","wage-settlements","louis-harris"],"audioDurationSec":222,"audioFiles":[{"file":"011-064.mp3","bytes":7095018,"durationSec":221.59,"bitrate":256152,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:21.709Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:35.688Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/011-064.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/011-064","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/11/conversation-011-064","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}