Nixon phone call with Rogers on United Nations and Taiwan

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Hello.

Hello, Mr. President.

You saw a good game, didn't you?

Wasn't that a great game?

Yeah.

I went in the locker room the way you did and met a lot of the players.

I got there a little late, I guess, for television, but it was nice.

Weaver was so pleased you called him.

Well, he said you never could have made a call at a better time.

He told some of them, he said, I'm just...

He said, I don't mind losing the game now.

He says, the president called me.

Yeah.

Of course, I called Murtaugh, too.

Of course.

But, I mean, it meant we were.

Well, you know, they were two great teams, and it could have gone either way.

But, boy.

Well, I was sort of glad to see Pittsburgh win because that Clemente is so great.

Oh, my God.

And unbelievable.

Unbelievable, really.

You know that pitcher, that Bill Blass?

Yeah.

He's a hell of a nice fellow.

Is he?

Really attractive young fellow.

Yeah, yeah.

In Stargell, afterwards, I saw him, and he said...

I can't tell you how much this means to me.

He said, as a youngster, I used to dream of being in the World Series.

And he said, I thought maybe someday it would come to pass.

And he said, now my dreams have come true.

He said, I can't tell you how much it means.

He said, this is a great country, and I'm so happy.

Isn't that something?

And he got a hit today, too.

He hasn't gotten many.

No, he didn't.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I saw it, really just saw two games.

I saw the one yesterday I saw, which was a fantastic game.

Wasn't it?

It was probably the best game.

Yes.

Although one today was for pitching.

God, it was a marvelous game.

And, of course, some of those fielding plays, that last inning.

Oh, gee.

Last set, I wasn't sure I could go out in the mound the last inning.

Yeah.

He said I was on purpose.

Yeah.

He had to face Powell and Frank Robinson.

Yeah.

The first time you were on television, they had a blackout of the, I mean, the sound didn't come on, so that's why they brought you on a second time.

That's right.

I saw it both times, so it looked good and sounded fine.

Oh, yeah, it was great.

And, you know, what you were saying, those little squibs are very good.

Yeah, well... And it showed you cheering for both sides, which is good.

That's right, you know, you... Yeah.

But...

I didn't go because I just felt that, you know, at first I've got a hell of a lot of things I'm working on at the moment, and I think my identification with baseball is so clear that I don't have to go to the series.

I think what you're doing, though, is so good on these other sports.

I talked to John Mitchell some time back about that.

You mean like?

Bowling.

Bowling, auto racing.

Auto racing, things like that.

Yeah.

I think that's very good.

Yeah, yeah.

As a matter of fact, it might not be a bad idea when they have one of these bowling championships... To go to one.

To go to one.

I couldn't agree more.

In the lanes, you know, on television.

Yeah.

And there are a lot of people in this country that follow it.

And I think it would be great.

Everybody goes to baseball and football, but nobody... Sure.

And yet more people bowl.

More people may watch the other two.

More people bowl than anything else.

About 40 million bowl.

That's right.

Yeah.

Also to keep track of... Yeah.

I'd like to do it.

They have...

Well, they have, usually in the big city like New York or Chicago, and they have the national championships.

Yeah.

Well, I think things are going very well, President, don't you, for you?

Right.

I was going to suggest, you know, I noticed we're on to get Finch off tomorrow, which would be good.

I was wondering if you and Bush and Higg...

Alec, the four of us could have a talk sometime this week, no hurry, just to look over those votes, you know, on the UN thing.

It seemed as I looked at the list, the uncommitted list, that my God, when you see countries like Venezuela and Panama and

others in Greece and Turkey, for which we are life and death.

I mean, they've just got to give us a vote on a thing like this, you know.

I think so, too.

And I know that you're doing all you can.

I should stay out of it, I think.

You know what I mean?

I've done what I... As you know, remember, I received the congressman, and that was a hell of a list, 350 people.

But you've made a strong public statement and have taken the leadership on it.

You've...

also got the, George has, and I think if we can, I think getting me involved puts in too direct a deal, particularly when we're working out the Peking and too direct a case that I'm just, you know,

They'll try to play it as if we're playing it against Peking, which is really not the case.

But do you think a meeting would be useful?

I think it would.

I think it would be useful and I think it would be helpful if Ron Ziegler could say something to the effect that

Of course the President of the United States supports the efforts that are being made by the Secretary of State and Ambassador Bush or something like that.

There is a feeling that maybe that's not the case.

I don't think you should actively get involved.

But I think it might make the difference between winning and losing if you could say something.

Yeah, I see.

Like have Ziegler say something.

Yeah, well, we could get a question planted on the thing.

That's right.

As a matter of fact, a foreign minister from Taiwan came in to see me the last day up there and made that request.

And he said, a lot of people think that the president really doesn't have his heart in it, that you're working hard, but they're not sure that the point is so important.

And I said, that's not true, of course, as you know, the president said.

I think it's the level of visibility, but I think a Ziegler statement, I think, would be very appropriate.

As you know, I did receive that group of congressmen that got some quite a bit of play.

That's right.

And we'll...

I think if you could do something like that, so if we lose it, you can later on say that you...

Frankly, I don't want to lose it, though.

I think it ought to be fighting this battle and then having the right wing take off on the United Nations and everything else would be a hell of a thing.

That's right.

It's awfully close.

And it's close enough that it could be won, it seems to me now.

I think we should make every effort.

It's close enough that it could be won because, as I said, if you look at some of these votes, they just shouldn't be on the other side.

I mean, because they depend so much on us.

I mean, good God, Israel.

Israel, we're their only friend.

They shouldn't vote against us on this.

I think they've got to vote with us, but they don't vote with us.

Well, that's the point.

They need to be told that quite directly, it seems to me.

Well, Henry's told them, and I've told them.

I know, I know.

Well, I think maybe some of that will, I would hope, would come through in the end, but...

How hard are the British lobbying against us?

They were bad at first, but I think it was at a lower level.

I had George talk to their master up there, and he promised us that he'd get everybody turned off, and I think they've been better lately.

But they do those in a soft voice.

They say, well, the United States is not going to win, and that's harmful as hell.

Yeah.

But I think they've been a little bit better lately.

I'm not sure that there's anything else we can do.

Yeah, well.

You talk to Eli Kuhn about it.

Sure, sure, sure.

The Italians are the ones that could make a big difference.

If they vote with us, it could make a very significant difference.

I, of course, talk tomorrow.

I think maybe you should send an oral note, an oral letter, a statement to Colombo.

Have the ambassador go and see.

That's right.

They'll make a difference in Turkey and possibly in Iran, and they can make a difference in Argentina.

Yes, I see.

Because they're in the process of trying to improve their relations with the PRC.

Sure, sure.

Everybody is sort of thinking, they think we're trying to improve our relations, therefore they think they ought to get ahead of us.

I understand that.

That's right.

Now, the one nation that deserves a hell of a lot of credit is Belgium.

Is that right?

Yeah.

They're trying to improve their relations.

In fact, they're having discussions now about renewing diplomatic relations with Congress.

Yeah.

And they're going to vote with us on both.

And Harmel, who's such a fine gentleman.

Oh, yes.

Very helpful.

uh he's the really belgium and luxembourg are the only two nato countries that are with us is that right well we're trying to get greece and turkey but i mean belgium and luxembourg are the only two that are helpful we'd better get greece and turkey i swear to god would it be would it be useful to have agnew uh ask him he said he would he said he'd take it i'll tell you in the morning uh

Well, when we meet, maybe you just get a message to him and tell him we've met and that this is the highest priority.

The thing that I think ought to be, I think with Greece and Turkey, what they must remember is that they're, frankly, only supporters in our Congress.

are the people that would be out of their minds if they vote against Taiwan.

You see?

That's right.

Now, that's a very potent point, you know.

What the hell?

There's a hell of a lot of people who want to cut off aid to certainly Greece.

That's right.

Don't you agree?

I think Greece is probably going to be with us.

Turkey is a tough one.

Why are they leaning the other way?

Well, they are a little bit closer, of course, to China.

And they are in the process now of establishing diplomatic relations with...

But they can do that, too.

But this isn't going to harm that.

Well, they don't think so, though.

They look at countries like Canada and they say, well, why the hell is Canada and Italy and these other countries that are doing this?

And why do you expect us to?

I mean, Italy's a good example.

That's why Italy's important, because they see the analogy with Italy.

But I think we've got to get Turkey.

If we can get Turkey and Argentina.

Now, how do we work in Argentina's lodge, I suppose?

Well, I think there again is a message from you to...

The president.

I think he leans in our direction.

The foreign ministry leans the other way.

In other words, use the oral message technique.

That's right.

to both Argentina and Italy.

Mexico is also troublesome.

But I suppose they'd be tough, though.

Well, damn it, the president is a nice fellow.

I had a long talk with him in front of his foreign minister, and his foreign minister is sort of an insipid little guy.

I must say that I came out way ahead.

The president was quite impressed and went out of his way to say, you know, I really didn't have a clear understanding of it before and so forth.

I think I've got them on our side in terms of not voting against us.

I think they may abstain, but we need their vote on this important question.

That's the key vote, of course.

And right at the moment... What is the date of the vote now, do you anticipate?

I think it's going to be about the 28th.

Mm-hmm.

So we've got a little time.

Yeah.

You know, it's almost too late.

Never much.

That's right.

Never enough.

Never enough, is there?

Well... Well, would you like then to see... Well, let me see what I have tomorrow.

I'm going to get...

When I get with Haldeman to see what we've got, the time.

And then...

I'll get in touch with you as to when we can probably sit down.

We need to take a half hour to look over the things to see which ones.

But in the meantime, I think you ought to, if you would, let's get a, you ought to get some, when does Agnew get to Greece?

Is he there now?

He's there now, yeah.

I think the Turkey, he's left Turkey, so the tough one is, I think,

I think he's going to do what he can.

I think that...

I would think he would because he believes it deeply, too.

Oh, sure.

Sure.

And I had a... And you've already told him that?

Oh, yes.

All right.

Well, then he'll do it.

I don't think you need to do anything more with him, but... No, I don't think so.

Do you?

No, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

Is Martin... Is he adequate to do the job at the Colombo?

I mean, he could go in.

He could talk to him quite firmly, couldn't he?

Yes.

Sure.

No, he's in pretty good terms with him.

Mm-hmm.

Or what we might do with him is just to... We didn't send one to Italy yet.

I know there were some where our messages went out.

We sent one to Ireland, and let me see.

Iran is another one.

The Shah should be with us.

But he's playing sort of a mixed-up game, too.

Sure.

Yeah, they're off.

Okay, well, we'll see you tomorrow.

Bye, Mr. K. Thanks for calling, sir.

Nixon phone call with Rogers on United Nations and Taiwan

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on October 17, 1971

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Nixon phone call with Rogers on United Nations and Taiwan

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on October 17, 1971

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Cite this conversation