Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 11 › Conversation 011-141

Nixon phone call with Colson on Congressional legislation

Tuesday, October 19, 1971 · 5:09 PM–5:27 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation011-141 on Tape 11 (tape position 03:56:46–04:15:30)StartTuesday, October 19, 1971 at 5:09 PMEndTuesday, October 19, 1971 at 5:27 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 011-141 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417190169 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the administration's recent legislative victory in the House regarding Mansfield amendments and the broader congressional agenda. The two review positive polling trends, including favorable data from Gallup and Sindlinger, and analyze the political implications of recent events such as the North Carolina reception and textile agreements. Additionally, they touch upon economic performance and the importance of maintaining positive public perception through the conclusion of the legislative session.

Audio

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NARA Description

On October 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 5:09 pm to 5:27 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 011-141 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 011-141

 Date: October 19, 1971

 Time: 5:09 pm - 5:27 pm
 Location: White House Telephone

 The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

 [See Conversation No. 292-15]

        House
            -Vote
                 -Leslie C. Arends
                 -Senate amendment
                 -Administration victory
                       -The President's meeting with leaders
                       -The President's meeting with Democrats
                 -Michael J. Mansfield amendment

        Sam J. Ervin, Jr. committee
             -Edith Efron book
             -William L. Springer

        Mansfield
            -Senate agenda
                  -Revenue sharing
                  -Welfare reform
                  -Tax legislation
                  -Phase II legislation
                  -Supreme Court nominees

      The President's conversation with Donald Rumsfeld
            -George H.Gallup
                 -Polls
                        -Support for the President
                             -Figures
                        -Albert E. Sindlinger

                                -Support for the President
                           -Timing of figures collection
                                -Summit
                                -Textile agreement

        The President's schedule
Show the rest of the log (80 more lines)
             -Reception in North Carolina
                  -Colson's conversation with Fred B. Rhodes
                         -Deputy Veterans Administrator
                         -President-elect, Southern Baptist Conference
                         -Support for the President

        Economy
             -The President's conversation with George P. Shultz
                  -The President's feeling about the economy
                        -Harris
                              -Wholesale price figure
                        -Economic indicators
                              -Consumer price index [CPI]
                              -Gross National Product [GNP]
                              -Bureau of Labor Statistics [BLS]
                                   -CPI
                              -Durable goods
                              -Personal income

        Colson's conversation with James F. Cleary
             -Eastman Dillon, chief executive officer
             -Stock market
                   -Prediction
                   -Savings
                   -Volume
                   -Cleary’s view

        Economy

                -Walter E. Heller
                     -Economic growth estimates
                -Paul W. McCracken
                     -Automobiles
                     -Housing starts
                           -Increases
                -George Meany
                     -Impact of the President's telephone call
                           -Jay Lovestone's telephone call to Colson
                                 -Edward M. Kennedy speech
                                      -Henry M. ("Scoop") Jackson
                                      -Meany
                                            -Actions
                                      -Youth
                                      -Poll standing

        Polls
                -Harris
                     -Edmund S. Muskie
                         -Gallup
                         -Sindlinger
                         -Edward M. Kennedy

        Edward M. Kennedy
            -Administration actions
                  -Muskie, Hubert H. Humphrey
            -Speech
                  -Robert F. Kennedy
                  -The President
                  -Lovestone
                       -Jackson
            -Gallup poll
                  -Youth
                  -Blacks

                    -Richard M. Scammon
                         -Youth
                         -"Over 50" generation

        The President's press secretary
             -Mike Royko
                  -Chicago Daily News

        Edward M. Kennedy
            -Harris
            -Robert F. Kennedy
            -Colson’s view

        Austin H. Kiplinger
             -Election prediction
                   -President’s policies

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Yes, sir.
Well, that was a good vote in the House.
Yes, that sure was.
And particularly, that was a tougher vote than the others because the way that Les nailed it down, it's flat out, wasn't it?
Well, he used some parliamentary maneuvering to get... Yeah, but I meant that made them vote up or down on... That's right.
...which they said they would not accept the Senate amendment.
Isn't that right?
Mm-hmm.
Yes, sir.
So the conferees now go instructed not to accept a Senate amendment that's not germane.
Well, we're glad to win it.
It's closed.
The press will play it that it's the closest vote yet and all that bullshit.
Well, but it's one in a series, Mr. President.
And you know we haven't lost one that counted in a hell of a long time.
No.
You know, I went over.
I did both the leaders, and I went over and did the Democrats, too, this morning.
So I whopped them both.
We had 40, 50 Democrats stopped.
Well, it was a good thing to do.
I think it's part of a psychology, you know, that people don't focus so much on the specifics as they do on just a general attitude that is damned important.
And I think that was a big one.
And I was worried about that.
That was one that looked like it could cause us some trouble, but I think we're out of the woods on the Mansfield amendments from now on.
We did get some testimony stirred up today in the
and the Irvin Committee, which hopefully we'll get, they'll have to cover tonight on the networks, I hope.
Raise the Efren book and raise the little ruckus over the networks.
Springer did a damn good job.
So that'll help us a bit.
Mansfield announced, as you may have heard, that he wants everybody now to start buckling down to work for the end of the session.
And his
pretty much limited the agenda of what the Senate will deal with.
He's written off welfare reform, all of them, and just said he's going to concentrate on the tax legislation, the Phase II legislation, and allow ample time for discussion of the nominees to the Supreme Court.
I talked to Rumsfeld.
He had been in touch with the Gallup people, and
Did he have anything?
He didn't have a number.
I don't know why they're holding back on him, but he just said that Gallup said it was up substantially or something, in other words, to that effect, based on the first two-thirds, but that was all.
But he wants that kept extremely.
Apparently, Gallup is terribly sensitive about anything leaking on his, and something may have leaked here at one point, so...
That's the reason I think he wants to keep it, and I don't blame him a bit.
No, no, I think it's just as well, as a matter of fact, you have to play it very carefully.
I think it's bound to follow the same pattern.
But it must be up somewhere, or he wouldn't say so, because he said that he called Rumsfeld to say, well, it is up.
That was today that you talked to Rumsfeld?
Right, Rumsfeld at noon.
Well, I talked to him last evening, I guess, and he said they had about two-thirds tabulated, and it looked pretty good at that point.
This was better today.
I don't know.
Well, maybe it may have been the same conversation.
I don't think so.
I think it was a different one.
Well, you add them all up, and it's showing a comparable trend.
As I told you yesterday, Sendlinger has it at the highest you've ever been since you were nominated.
He said your high point was right after the nomination.
On the way he questions, of course, he uses a totally different technique, but they're all following exactly the same pattern.
I think there's a hell of a lot of strength out there, plus an attitude building on the other side that the nomination isn't worth much.
The Gallup figures were taken before the summit.
I think they straddled it.
No, he said they finished on the 11th.
I see.
So I don't know what the effect that had anyway.
May have not have had too much.
I had gotten, well, last week was a hell of a week, Mr. President.
It was quite a week.
You had the summit and you also had the textile agreement played very strong.
And also I made announcements at the press conference.
Had a good reception in North Carolina.
North Carolina.
Superb reception.
That's been...
getting a lot of follow-up.
Well, I talked with Fred Rhodes today, who's... Fred Rhodes.
He's the Deputy Veterans Administrator, but he's also about to be President of the Southern Baptist Conference.
He's quite an effective little guy.
He said all of his people have been calling him after the Friday performance.
He said he'd had several calls from leaders.
These are Southern Baptist leaders who have said, well, they've always been for Nixon, but...
Now they were just, they thought the country couldn't survive without him.
He said it just turned them into a, turned them all into evangelists.
Apparently it was very well received.
That's good.
He's had, well, he's had a half a dozen unsolicited reports, and he made some calls that I asked him to make, but he got a universally very, very strong reaction.
You know, I talked to George Schultz a little on the, well, we were on budget, but mainly on the
He, of course, is a monetarist pretty much and thinks that that's the reason that maybe our figures aren't as good the third quarter as they ought to be.
But I'll tell you a funny thing.
I am not just pessimistic about this economy somewhere.
God damn it.
You know, whether it's housing,

Also recorded on October 19, 1971

  • 011-139 5:08 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:08 pm.
  • 011-140 5:08 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:08 pm and 5:09 pm.
  • 292-012 5:08 PM · 53 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 5:08 pm.
  • 292-013 5:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:08 pm and 5:09 pm.
  • 292-014 5:08 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:08 pm and 5:09 pm.
  • 292-015 5:09 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:09 pm to 5:27 pm.
  • 011-142 5:27 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:27 pm and 5:38 pm.
  • 292-016 5:27 PM · 59 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:27 pm to 5:38 pm.

All 95 conversations from October 19, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 011-141, October 19, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417190169). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/011-141 (accessed November 13, 2026).