Conversation 011-163

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Mr. Cox.

Hello.

Yes, sir, Mr. President.

How's your battle today?

Well, we got a few going.

We got Bob Dole, I hope, getting back at answering back Teddy Kennedy, who took off on us again today.

I don't know whether you heard about the latest.

No, he's after us every day.

You know, he's really sharpening up the attack.

I must say for him that...

that he's stepping into a vacuum because Muskie's making no news, really, to speak of.

Humphrey, nobody pays any attention to him.

No, and I did an interesting survey this morning.

They don't cover Jackson.

Well, Jackson did a little bit today by telling the Democratic Party that he didn't care if they ran a third-party candidate.

He thought it would probably be a good thing for the Democrats.

But what's Teddy's line today?

Well, Teddy's latest line is that, quote, the men who were involved in the selection of Supreme Court nominees, Richard Nixon, John Mitchell, and I understand John Connolly, remind me of the people who used to put impeachable warrant signs out on the highway.

Oh, yeah, the birchers.

Oh, yeah, I saw that line.

That was unconscionable.

I just didn't figure any of our people had the guts to take them on.

That would be a smear if we'd have used it.

for on every page in the nation, and nobody paid, not one goddamn country paid any attention to it.

He would have had the greatest liberal outburst in the United States.

Terrible.

He's saying we're a bunch of, frankly, radical rightists.

Oh, terrible.

Well, the Ku Klux Klan and the John Birch Society ran all those, used to run those impeach warrants.

Well, I've talked to Doe.

He probably won't do it.

Well, I gave him a good jab in the ass and told him this is once, God damn it, if he's going to sit around as national chairman while Ted Kennedy is calling us racists.

That's right.

John Birch is.

You see, the Birch Society is both anti-Semitic and anti-black, you know.

It is both.

Right.

Everybody knows it.

Well, I think it...

I think it's significant that he is really the only one right now making news, but he's using what Harris talked about when he met with you last week, the sharp attack.

That's right.

I think it's, I think it'll backfire on him.

It's too much.

Well, it may, may not.

It won't unless somebody takes him on on it.

Well, I'm, uh... See, you don't, it doesn't backfire if everybody sits by and says, hey, Ray, Ray, isn't that great?

Well, I agree.

This is one where, where I've, as I say, I've put the woods in.

The cabinet officer take him on, for Christ's sakes.

Well, Mitchell is speaking up in, uh... Yeah.

Yeah.

Philadelphia today.

I mean, what's the crisis of matter with Romney and Volpe and all those clowns?

Can't they say something?

Well, I might get Jared Volpe.

He might be just the guy.

They ought to defend the president and defend a fellow cabinet officer or anything like that.

See what I mean?

That's what I'd do.

Well, I think that's a good thought.

I'll get Volpe.

He's out.

speaking every day that's right i know he's a great soldier but you know he doesn't make any news well the attacks kennedy might make some news i think he would both from massachusetts i just might uh yeah i tried to copy on that it is damn good idea they ought to be hit back on it i got the word to mitchell i think just before he went on to speak to the ap editors so he may he may want to yeah slash back on that one it's interesting though we did do a

little survey of the wires over the past week this morning, because I like to see how things are building.

And all of a sudden, Kennedy has emerged.

He's on every issue.

He's speaking out on everything.

He's got all the way from medical care to the Supreme Court to aid to Pakistan.

He's out every day with it.

But the others are quiet.

And the other interesting thing, Mr. President, that I think is

perhaps politically significant, the Democrats have made almost no attacks on the economy.

Mills did today.

Mills had a highly partisan attack today.

What was his line?

In his speech at the press club.

Well, he was answering Agnew on revenue sharing, saying that he was being smeared by Agnew in a pretty powerful language he used.

Yeah.

But Bush League tactics, we've messed up the economy and we're trying to

cover up for that.

But over the past week, they've made no real attacks on the economy that have gotten any kind of real play.

And in fact, the presidential candidates have been relatively quiet on it, which kind of indicates that maybe they don't see the political... Muskie is the one that seems so strangely quiet.

Isn't he speaking, or what the hell is happening?

Yes, sir, he is, and he just is not making any news.

Is that right?

Mm-hmm.

Well, actually, I don't know how active he is, but I didn't look at his schedule this week.

But he's been out heavily, although he's back here now, was back here yesterday, I know, working on the environmental water quality bill, which is going to give us fits in the Senate.

Yeah, I know.

He's got a miserable bill.

Terrible bill.

Oh, God awful.

It's a hell of a political, sticky wicket, but he's making no news.

He's really doing very little.

I sent one of my, you asked me yesterday whether you could buy the news twisters in the bookstores around here, so I know I had bought one, but I sent the secretary out this morning, and she went to four bookstores in Washington.

Three of them were sold out.

They had had it, though.

Yes, sir.

One of them had two copies left, and all of them, I had her just sort of casually ask how they were selling, and all of them said, gee, they're

we can't keep them in stock.

So that's kind of an encouraging sign.

I have someone doing the same thing in New York this afternoon.

If we find this is the case, we may reassess the advisability of going out and buying a hell of a lot of them.

I don't know whether... You mean if it's selling anyway?

Well, I'd gotten a word through from the publisher last week that the sales weren't that great.

Yeah, that's what I understood.

But around here, they apparently have just...

sold them out.

And I'll have a report from New York by the end of the day.

A lot of people want to buy them anyway.

We've got to do some bulk buying just to cover our list, Chuck.

Now, that list must be covered immediately.

Well, we will do that.

Is that being done?

Yes, sir.

Oh, yes.

I want to be sure that, you know, because they've got to start people talking about it.

We don't have the book being mailed, Mr. President.

We have 3,100 letters going out to

broadcasters well i shouldn't say that crutchfield who's a great soldier as you know and charlotte yes sir oh is he doing something oh he sent the book out to all of his friends and he did what do you think of it he's of course he thinks it's great he wrote a beautiful cover letter and sent the book to a hell of a lot of broadcasters that he has associated with and in fact sent up a batch of their replies a lot of them agreeing completely with the

So he's done that, but we're in addition taking a pricey of the book and sending it to 3,100 people.

So it'll do the rounds.

But as I say, if we find that it's selling, we may...

Yeah, I understand.

We may decide to pump it up a bit.

If it wasn't, it's pretty hard to build on it because it takes a heck of a lot to do it.

I know, I know.

It's all right.

Mayor Daley gave it a hell of a plug last week.

He did.

Good for him.

In his press conference, he stopped the press conference right in the middle and said,

announced that he wanted all the reporters to go out and buy a copy because he just read it and thought it was great.

Of course, it's the kind of thing... Oh, I tell you, the press is dying with this thing.

That's why they're attacking it.

Well, they gave Springer a little coverage last night on TV.

Not a hell of a lot.

Birch took off on him today.

He did a beautiful job.

I've got three pages of wire service stories talking about the networks have nothing to hide except their own...

problem if they stage or slant the news, which is contrary to the public interest.

And if they do, the government's going to crack down on them.

So it's giving them a little answer.

It's beginning to have an effect.

I just got word that Cavett will not have his contract renewed.

really sir and that's just the direct result of our yeah you think we have we think we have had some effect on that oh absolutely have we raised all about him about once a week sometimes twice a week oh good he he was going to take effort on you know but he wanted to load the panel and she just said the hell with it wouldn't do it and so we call haggardy and goldenson a

just routinely every time he steps out of line, which is at least once a week.

And the impact is that his contract, which expires, I think it's the end of this year, will not be renewed.

And they're looking for a successor.

So that shows they occasionally will bow to the pressure if we keep their feet to the fire.

And they are squirming over this book.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

Well, they know so much truth in it.

Sure as hell is.

It sure is.

Well, that's good.

I just got a Becker poll from Connecticut.

Another one, huh?

I said, this is a trial.

Heats just came in.

They're just too damn good to be true.

The only thing about them is that Becker has, Becker last fall wasn't more than a point off in any of the elections up there, but I just can't believe these for Connecticut.

He's got

Let's see, these were taken... Who's he polling for, do you know?

For the Hartford Times, which is a liberal newspaper.

Oh, not a candidate, I see.

No, no, he does this... Is it published?

Yes, sir, it's just been published.

Or it's just being published this week.

The interviewing was done September 16th and 18th.

It's got Nixon, 45, Muskie, 36, Wallace, 4, in Connecticut.

Nixon 54, Kennedy 27, Wallace 4, 15 undecided.

That's unbelievable.

It is.

He's got 56 to 26 over Humphrey, 53, 25 over Lindsey.

Out of 1,054 interviews.

That just doesn't ring true to me.

There's something wrong with that.

Are they going to print that?

Yes, sir.

Well, I'll be damned.

And he's the one who just had the approval poll last week, which was way the hell up.

What did Gallup find to come up with?

I haven't heard, Mr. President.

I didn't want to... No, don't press it.

I know Rumsfeld's...

I know, I know.

We don't want to press it.

Let them tell us when they get it.

I'm not going to ask any questions.

Gallup has got to show some increase.

Oh, he just asked...

If the others take this, let's suppose the damn thing is 25% off.

Still, in Connecticut, to run better than even is a landslide in the country, you know.

Really, that's true.

That's right.

Well...

what did we lose, Connecticut?

80,000 votes, I think.

Always, every year.

We did it in 60, we lost by 40,000 in 75, 80,000, well, not much more than that.

It runs 40 to 60,000 every year.

Well, Connecticut's an interesting swing state.

Now, the other thing, I called Becker on this.

I said, you guys, I called him last week on the other one.

I said, you guys just can't be right.

And he said, God damn it, Chuck, I've never been wrong and you know I haven't.

I must say, he called, I worked with him very closely on the Vermont race and Maine and Massachusetts and he was within

or never more than a percentage point off.

He said, yes, they are.

He said, if anything, we're loaded around the Hartford area where you're not as strong.

So he... What's he attributed to?

He just says you're coming up very, very fast.

He says the same thing that really the others say.

We're improving.

Improving very, very strong since the middle of... As he put it, a steady increase in support since August 15th and building during the month of September.

Very strong.

Uh...

And he really has the same thesis.

He must question some of the other polls if he's up there.

Well, I guess, as I say, they all show some increase.

Well, they do.

I think the most significant will be Gallup.

Yeah.

Gallup.

And because Gallup, I still think, despite all of his protestations...

is awful close to the Kennedy crowd.

I just have always felt that.

It's just a hunch, but I don't know.

Well, we'll see how they do.

I think we really know where it actually is.

I don't think there's much doubt.

We must know now if Harris comes up with this.

Yeah, his is published next week from tomorrow.

And this Hartford polar, just too many straws in the wind.

Of course, Hartford's a very good bow with us.

I mean, Connecticut's a very good...

We haven't done a thing in Connecticut.

It has relatively high unemployment, as I understand.

Not as bad as New Jersey, though, I guess.

Oh, yes.

Oh, it's worse.

Connecticut Valley was in bad shape.

This must be totally foreign policy, then.

They've had, well, let's see.

Yeah, the foreign policy parts of this 73-17 approve of the China trip.

Agree on the war.

Should be left for the president to decide rather than Congress setting a deadline as 48 to 42.

It's not bad.

It's damn good.

I'll assure you.

Approve of the economic freeze, 81 to 12.

Now, there's a good comparison.

That's about 10 points higher than the national polls that we've seen.

So say he's off by 10 or 12 percent, that's still...

Still pretty impressive.

His figure's there.

What's the one on Kennedy?

That's unbelievable.

Yeah, it sure is.

Well, Connecticut's a Catholic state.

Yes, it is.

It's about 55% Catholic.

Let's see, it's 45-36 with Muskie.

It's 54-27 with Kennedy.

Basically, Connecticut also is suburban, so Muskie would do better there.

Relatively.

Yeah, I see.

It isn't poor Catholic, generally.

They have some poor Catholics around, but not many.

Not much.

It's more basically middle and upper middle class, isn't it?

It's bedroom.

Yes, much more bedroom.

That's right.

There's no big manufacturing areas down through the valley, but it's more of a bedroom state.

And

Interesting.

Incidentally, this kind of thing will help the morale of the governor up there and others if they see this sort of thing.

Oh, sure.

Well, of course, he's one of the best loyalists we have around the country.

Is he really?

Oh, he's a great fellow.

We ought to let him know.

We appreciate it.

Good little scrappy Irish Catholic conservative who, every time he speaks, talks about you very...

very solidly.

Tommy Meskel's a good boy.

It's unbelievable, this kind of a poll.

Well, I was just looking at Metropolitan Hartford, which is interesting, because there it's Muskie beating you 48 to 36, but you beating Kennedy 50 to 34.

And that's where the whole difference is, because in the balance of the state, which would be more of the Republican areas, but

What's that Kennedy figure again?

The overall is 54-27.

Two to one?

Yes, sir.

Oh, God, that's unbelievable.

Wallace, four, 15% undecided.

What are the others now besides... Nixon, 45, Muskie, 36.

Humphrey?

56-26.

Jesus, Lindsey?

Four and 14, then 53-25.

Yeah, they're all the same.

It shows the same pattern.

And this thing...

Then what is it?

They're just wondering where Kennedy picks up his strength in the other national polls.

Here he runs behind the other, Muskie.

But now we have Kennedy and both Gallup and Harris.

Well, Harris, he runs about the same.

Yeah, no, he runs a little behind.

Kennedy runs a little bit ahead of Muskie in the latest.

Not very little, 1% or so.

Gallup still has him running two or three points ahead.

What in the hell is this?

Anyway, about

Where is it that Kennedy picks up all this strength?

Well, you have to remember this pole in Connecticut was taken September 16th through 18th.

Earlier, huh?

It's a little bit earlier.

That's really before Muskie was beginning to go down at that point.

There isn't much difference.

It doesn't happen that much in a week, two weeks, you know.

Well, if you read the political columnist, I noticed a few today commenting on how Kennedy is stepping into the vacuum.

Is that right?

He looks good by comparison.

He's the one figure who the Democrats kind of rally behind when they feel that their party is... And also, let's face it, the trouble is nobody except Goldwater is taking him on.

Am I right or not?

Goldwater, well, let's see.

Goldwater took him on, and of course Mitchell took him on hard.

Yeah.

Got some good press when he did.

And Laird has been taking him on lately, getting some press.

But you're right, only...

But some of that may build him up.

That's the other thing.

You just never know what taking on does.

It depends on whether... Well, we'll see.

Well, it's interesting.

I was...

I'll tell you this, boy, in Billy Graham country, that will mean...

They'll go out and pray and work like nothing.

That's the beauty of having Kennedy rise right now in the polls, is it does give our people...

I talked to Graham yesterday, and he said that thing in Charlotte has had a massive effect.

He said they had... Because, of course, they replayed it by radio and all that stuff.

Well, he's a great promoter, too.

He'll make the most out of that.

I've had that...

report back from... Crutchfield, for example, I must.

He was there.

I got it from Rhodes, who goes all over the Southern Baptist Conference.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you were telling me.

He said it's just...

It's had an enormous effect, and very...

greatly intensified the enthusiasm.

He said that most of the people... Becker, has he over a period of time shown us behind Connecticut, too?

Yes, sir.

Well, that tends to make it... Well, he's followed what he has done, Mr. President.

He's followed the Gallup line very much, except he will tend with his Connecticut polls, not so in the other states, to always show us a little bit better than Gallup.

Mm-hmm.

and and uh we may be a little better in connecticut who knows well it's possible and uh of course the the catholic thing is is an interesting phenomenon we may be better among catholics than we think you know after all they'd all know about that what we've done the isle smith dinner i mean the largest knights of columbus oh hell that had a tremendous impact and uh i haven't shown you the follow-up publicity we got more coming on that too

Well, you know, yes.

I think that's just... Well, I'm pushing on my end.

I think that there's just huge political appeal.

And you think that one out of every three Catholic children are educated in Catholic schools.

That's an awful lot of parents that are concerned about Catholic education.

You have scored on that.

As I say, I haven't bothered you with all the...

follow-up stuff that we've had, but almost every Catholic publication.

I just got in the National Catholic Education Association newsletter today with a great piece about all that you've done to aid Catholic schools.

Chris Cardinal Cook did a marvelous job after that Knights of Columbus speech.

He sent that all over the country.

Well, if we get this initiative, it's going to put our Democratic friends right on a hell of a hot spot.

Well, of course, Muskie and Kennedy really have got a problem in that area.

Jack Kennedy, as you know, was always afraid to do it because he was a Catholic.

Teddy has never really spoken to the subject.

Muskie is a Catholic, too, so he's afraid to do it.

And we haven't been able to do it.

About every week we have a reporter call his office and ask if he has a statement on aid to parochial schools, and he hasn't yet had one.

he's obviously ducking the issue.

And that's a very tough one for them to answer back.

You know, the Harris study that he brought down, all those different, the demographic study, the breakdown by region and by group, shows the biggest single gain among Catholics of any group over your 1968 vote total.

That's the largest turnaround.

You, in his latest trial, he'd sure ahead of

both Muskie and Kennedy with Catholic voters.

So it could well be, as a matter of fact, that in Connecticut, which is not under the dominant influence of Boston as Massachusetts is, where it's very liberal, Connecticut's more of a cross-section, that the Catholic vote is, if it's turned around as much as Harris is, and his figures are very dramatic in that area, then that could have a hell of an effect in Connecticut.

I might talk to, I might call the governor and talk to him about this.

Yeah, ask him what he thinks.

Good.

It'll get him to think about it, too.

And he's a good politician.

It'd be good to get his opinion.

Good.

Do it, sir.

And also get someone answering Kennedy this afternoon.

Well, if you can.

Well, let me say that I think somebody ought to defend John Connolly.

too i mean god damn it this is a hell of a thing to say oh it's a terrible thing merger jesus christ it's an outrageous thing oh really i mean i uh i uh scott or somebody ought to do it or well i'll talk to scott and he did he he's been great just tell him that the president thinks he's just been great and we don't want him to carry everything but ask him to pick a man well i thought he ought to defend on this thing because we'll have good appointments to the court scott knows that

Well, Scott gave a good statement yesterday and hit Kennedy.

He didn't get any press out of it, but he did it.

What they've got to do, though, is try to get Buchanan to write this statement.

Sometimes I don't think our statements are strong enough to do it, but smear the hell of him back.

Call it...

Not McCarthyism, but just say that this is dirty gutter politics.

It's the innuendo.

Dirty gutter politics, the smear of the worst, just get terrible adjectives.

I'll do it right away, sir.

Thank you, Mr. President.