Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 12 › Conversation 012-001

Nixon phone call with Rogers on Latin American relations and Import surcharges

Wednesday, October 20, 1971 · 2:51 PM–3:00 PM ET · White House Telephone · 8 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Rogers, William P.Conversation012-001 on Tape 12 (tape position 00:00:34–00:08:28)StartWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 2:51 PMEndWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 3:00 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 012-001 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417191519 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Secretary of State William Rogers discussed strategies for managing U.S.-Latin American relations, specifically focusing on the potential removal of import surcharges to provide a concrete economic gesture. They also coordinated plans for First Lady Pat Nixon's upcoming trip to Liberia and other countries, aiming to reframe it as a business-oriented, women-led diplomatic mission. Additionally, the two reviewed a recent meeting with legislative leaders regarding the Vietnam War, with Nixon expressing frustration over continued political pressure despite low casualty rates.

Audio

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NARA Description

On October 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 2:51 pm to 3:00 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-001 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 012-001

Date: October 20, 1971
Time: 2:51 pm- 3:00 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with William P. Rogers.

[See Conversation No. 282-10]

     US foreign relations
          -Surcharge
                -Most Favored Nation treaties
                      -Possibility of regional exemption
                -Japanese case
                -Quotas
          -Latin America
                -Surcharge
                -Briefings regarding trips to Peking and Moscow
                -Possible speeches
                -Charles A. Meyer
                -Brazil
          -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon's trip
                -Purpose
                -Composition of party
                      -Women
                      -Elliot L. Richardson
                      -William F. (“Billy”) Graham
                -Liberia
                -Countries to visit
                -Negro Woman
                      -Elizabeth D. Koontz
                             -Labor Department
                             -North Carolina

               -Patricia R. Hitt
               -Negro reporters
                     -Unintelligible names
                     -Ethel [Surname unknown]
                     -Ebony Magazine
                     -Jet Magazine
           -Meeting with legislative leaders
               -Robert P. Griffin
               -Charles W. Whalen, Jr.
               -Vietnam war
                     -Casualties
                     -Conclusion

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I think it's a great idea and I think it can be managed without too much difficulty.
The only problem that I see is whether you can come up with something.
I think in the absence of that it would be a mistake.
It can't be a promise.
It's got to be a... How about the surcharge?
On the surcharge I'll have to talk to
Well, I tell you what, apparently the problem is this, Mr. President, that in our treaties, on the most favored nation treaties that we have with so many countries, that we provide that we won't give any, in other words, they get the best treatment we give any other nation.
So if we exempted a region...
And every other nation that had a treaty with us would say, well, you've got to give us the same treatment.
I see.
Now, I'm having my lawyers check on whether there's an out on that.
It may be that there is some way to
to get out of it.
If there's some escape clause in these treaties, we could apply that.
See, it doesn't really make a hell of a lot of difference from our standpoint.
It isn't going to be very significant in terms of...
It means absolutely nothing.
No, it's peanuts.
But it means a hell of a lot to them.
And anything that we did, even if we promised legislation or something, I think we should do it because they'd think it was a hoax.
No, no.
We've got to come up with something very specific, but I don't...
But by that time, we ought to be able to, it seems to me.
I don't know what the hell we could give them, but... Well, let me check on that.
Maybe it has to be not more in the way of a big money deal, but I really think the surcharge thing is the deal.
That's the thing.
What about also, remember we were talking about the preferential...
Well, that requires legislation.
That's the trouble with that.
I see.
General preferences.
That's why we could send it up.
The beauty of the surcharge is it's kind of like what we did with the Japanese.
All we're doing is we're not giving them anything.
We're just taking something away that we've already, we're taking away pain that we have applied.
That's right.
That's right.
Of course, the reason we could do it, you know, the reason we could do it with the Japanese case is because it's a quarter, and if we have the, there's an exemption under the law for products that are under a quarter, mandatory quarters.
Well, let me... Is there any way for... Well, I'm all for stretching the law a little here.
I am too.
If we can stretch it without...
without getting into too much trouble on the favored nations thing.
That's right.
But Latin America seems to be so special.
I agree with you, though.
I guess if we, unless we got something to talk about, the only, of course, what we will talk about, we're really informing them of our trips and what we're going to be doing and so forth.
I mean, that, of course, means something.
But on the other hand, we ought to do something for them.
If you had one thing to give them, even if it wasn't too meaningful, but if it was concrete, like the removal of the surcharge,
then it would be a tremendous success because you could be from on the trip to Peking and Moscow and talk to them like world leaders and so forth, and they love that.
Right.
The other thing is a possibility.
Is there anything else?
I mean, we've been racking our brains on Latin America.
Is there anything else that...
something new or different that we could do some new relationship or some I don't know I just don't know well let me let me put my mind to it every time you try to write a goddamn speech in Latin America we come up with nothing because you know it just isn't there is it that's right that's that's really the problem
Well, we'll think about it.
Mr. President, let me...
But don't get us involved in the trip until we're... Oh, no, no.
What I'm going to do, by the way, I'll handle it all myself, and I'll talk about just exploratory, you know, what Charlie Meyer can do.
I very much like the idea of Brazil.
I do, too.
On another subject, if you've got just a moment, on Pat's trip, I talked to her, and we're getting started, and we won't have any difficulty at all on that.
I think it'll be great success.
I was going to suggest this idea and see how you like it, that we sort of...
make it a business trip more than social.
And to include in her party, have a small party, but have it consist of, say, four or five of the top women in our government.
So it could be a women-oriented, not totally, but women-oriented business trip.
understand and we could get somebody from elliott richardson shop right in education somebody in the health field yeah uh yeah we've got a woman here that's damn good and have about four or five top american women excellent and that gives the impression of that that women are it's a woman to woman deal and of course that's a matriarchal society anyway that's right and uh
as i say it wouldn't it wouldn't be too obvious because we have some men too excellent idea no i wouldn't have any men but well we have a couple but i i think we don't think you need to i just i personally think making it a woman oriented
to the extent you can it would be a very good idea yeah well i i will she's gonna is the only person she really has to take is graham because he's been invited billy graham of course is the well i i would i would this doesn't mean it was on the on the delegation the library because that's just for the birds but the rest of the trip oh have you got you're planning some some other stops yes what i thought we'd do is try to plan maybe three or possibly four other countries it'll be a tremendous hit
Do you think it will?
Oh, it'll be tremendous.
They'll love it.
Now, incidentally, I don't know whether this is the case, how do they feel over there about Negro women?
There's Mrs. Kuntz over in the Labor Department who is very good.
Yes.
Or do they like Negro women?
You mean in Africa?
Yeah.
Oh, sure.
Hell yes.
You know what I mean.
I'm not, I just wondered.
Oh, no.
There was a while that they thought it was sort of condescending, but they don't feel that way anymore.
This Mrs. Kuntz from North Carolina, it'd mean a lot to her.
and she's one that occurs to me.
Pat Hitt of course is well grounded in who the women are around, but that would be a hell of a good idea.
It would mean an awful lot to them to go to.
Oh well, but it will be a great success.
And, you know, there's some damn good Negro reporters, too.
There's two or three of them on the trip.
Simeon Booker.
That's right.
They'll give her Ethel.
What's her name?
Ethel, I know.
I've always been to her.
I've been to her house.
And they give it a good play in Ebony and Jet and all that sort of thing.
It'll really have an impact.
all right well let me work on both of these all right fine but i thought that meeting with legislative leaders went pretty well in you yeah it was fine fine good good you put it right to him bob griffin said to me he thought it was the best one he'd ever attended it's great you know another thing that's well that's good the way you laid it out i need to hear a few positive things you know they're always in whining that's right and uh and thank god that we won the vote that's right it gets closer each time but
Our Democratic friends are so totally irresponsible on this, aren't they?
Well, and the goddamn Republicans, Waylon, just as bad.
But the point is that they're just panting to get out in front because they know that the war is coming over.
You know, when you really come to think of it, Bill, five casualties this week.
Now, what the Christ?
I mean, hell, that many are killed on a campus usually.
That's right.
Well, just on one weekend.
It's all over.
Sure.
It's all over.
We all know it, and now it'll blip up and down, but damn it, they all know the war's over as far as we're concerned.
Nobody, I mean, it's getting down and down and down.
The level of activity, as I watch it, is extremely low at the present time.
Of course, this is a low time of year.
There were only 40 a year ago, but 40 compared with five, it's still a big difference.
That's right.
All right, Mr. Byrne, while you're working on these, I think these are two good ideas.
Bye.

Also recorded on October 20, 1971

  • 282-009 2:47 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:47 pm to 2:51 pm.
  • 282-010 2:51 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:51 pm to 3:00 pm.
  • 012-002 3:00 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 3:06 pm.
  • 282-011 3:00 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 3:06 pm.
  • 012-003 3:06 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Donald H. Rumsfeld talked on the telephone from 3:06 pm to 3:10 pm.
  • 282-012 3:06 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Donald H. Rumsfeld met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:06 pm to 3:10 pm.
  • 282-013 3:10 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:10 pm and 3:15 pm.
  • 282-014 3:15 PM · 26 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:15 pm to 3:42 pm.

All 81 conversations from October 20, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 012-001, October 20, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417191519). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-001 (accessed November 12, 2026).