Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 12 › Conversation 012-006

Nixon phone call with an unidentified caller on Diplomatic trips

Wednesday, October 20, 1971 · 3:40 PM–3:42 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan)Conversation012-006 on Tape 12 (tape position 00:15:14–00:16:45)StartWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 3:40 PMEndWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 3:42 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 012-006 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417191529 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon suggests that First Lady Pat Nixon include several high-ranking women from the administration, such as Elizabeth Koontz, on a forthcoming diplomatic trip to increase the mission's substantive impact. Mrs. Nixon expresses hesitation, citing her previous negative experience with managing a group of cabinet wives during a trip to Mexico. To address these logistical concerns, the President proposes that the delegates follow separate, individual schedules and only join the First Lady for social events in the evening.

Pat Nixon
Diplomatic trips
Women in government
Logistics
Foreign policy
Elizabeth Koontz

Audio

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NARA Description

On October 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 3:40 pm to 3:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-006 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 012-006

Date: October 20, 1971
Time: 3:40 pm- 3:42 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon.

[See Conversation No. 282-14D]

     Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s schedule

           -Forthcoming trip
           -People accompanying Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon on trip
                 -Elizabeth D. Koontz
                 -Women
                 -Possible problems
                       -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s previous trip to Mexico

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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You know I was just talking to Bill Rogers and he's got a great idea I think if you know that if you could take three or four of the top women in government and do three or four more countries

You see what I mean?

Now, the reason is that now, for example, and they wouldn't be black, but there is one black woman, you know, Ella Koontz in labor, who is really quite outstanding.

So you could take a top person from HEW,

Yeah, I have to think about it a little bit, Dick.

So let's don't decide right now because some of these women, they're awfully hard to take care of.

You know, you can't get around much.

Like in Mexico, remember?

I know, I know.

I had all the cabinet wives with me and I could hardly operate.

I know.

The way I would do it, though, is that I would not have them with you.

I'd have them have separate schedules.

Oh, yeah.

Well, we could.

You'd go in.

You'd go in, and each of them would go out.

One would visit a hospital, another would go to a nursing home, another go to a volunteer center, another go to that.

And you go to the things you go to, see.

You'd only meet socially at night, which is the way I've gone, see, at times.

No, I think, and the idea, too, the idea of making the trip substantive is very important.

Yeah, well, I put that out.

Because of the substantive thing.

Yeah.

Listen, I have to go to another thing now.

I'll talk about it later, all right?

Okay.

Also recorded on October 20, 1971

012-004 3:37 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:37 pm to 3:39 pm.
012-005 3:39 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:39 pm and 3:40 pm.
012-007 3:42 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:42 pm and 3:43 pm.
282-015 3:42 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:42 pm to 3:43 pm.
012-008 3:43 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:43 pm.
282-016 3:43 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 3:43 pm.
282-017 3:43 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 4:05 pm.
282-018 3:43 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:43 pm to 4:05 pm.

All 81 conversations from October 20, 1971 →

Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on School Busing and ITT Case March 14, 1972 · 1 hr 56 min
Nixon, Raulinaitis & Hampton on Women in government and Equal opportunity April 29, 1971 · 29 min
Nixon, Spain & Hampton on Civil Service Commission and sex discrimination June 14, 1971 · 10 min
Nixon, Ray & Schlesinger on Atomic Energy Commission and Women in government August 8, 1972 · 11 min
Nixon, Armstrong & Haldeman on Bicentennial Commission December 13, 1972 · 39 min
Nixon, Armstrong & Franklin on Women in government and Federal employment March 7, 1973 · 15 min

Cite this conversation

Conversation 012-006, October 20, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417191529). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-006 (accessed November 12, 2026).