{"conversationCode":"012-006","tapeNumber":12,"conversationNumber":6,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-012-006","startDateTime":"1971-10-20T19:40:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-10-20T19:42:00.000Z","startDate":"20-Oct-1971","startTime":"3:40 PM","endDate":"20-Oct-1971","endTime":"3:42 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Nixon, Thelma C. (\"Pat\") (Ryan);","description":"On October 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. (\"Pat\") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 3:40 pm to 3:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-006 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 012-006\n\nDate: October 20, 1971\nTime: 3:40 pm- 3:42 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon.\n\n[See Conversation No. 282-14D]\n\n     Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s schedule\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n           -Forthcoming trip\n           -People accompanying Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon on trip\n                 -Elizabeth D. Koontz\n                 -Women\n                 -Possible problems\n                       -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s previous trip to Mexico","filename":["012-006.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:15:14","tapeEnd":"00:16:45","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Nixon, Thelma C. (\"Pat\") (Ryan)"],"prevCode":"012-005","nextCode":"012-007","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":19.98,"text":"You know I was just talking to Bill Rogers and he's got a great idea I think if you know that if you could take three or four of the top women in government and do three or four more countries"},{"start":20.4,"end":21.16,"text":"You see what I mean?"},{"start":21.8,"end":30.9,"text":"Now, the reason is that now, for example, and they wouldn't be black, but there is one black woman, you know, Ella Koontz in labor, who is really quite outstanding."},{"start":31.52,"end":33.88,"text":"So you could take a top person from HEW,"},{"start":34.25,"end":37.72,"text":"Yeah, I have to think about it a little bit, Dick."},{"start":37.78,"end":42.97,"text":"So let's don't decide right now because some of these women, they're awfully hard to take care of."},{"start":42.99,"end":44.47,"text":"You know, you can't get around much."},{"start":44.57,"end":46.71,"text":"Like in Mexico, remember?"},{"start":46.77,"end":47.39,"text":"I know, I know."},{"start":47.59,"end":51.02,"text":"I had all the cabinet wives with me and I could hardly operate."},{"start":51.04,"end":51.48,"text":"I know."},{"start":51.52,"end":54.26,"text":"The way I would do it, though, is that I would not have them with you."},{"start":55.18,"end":57.53,"text":"I'd have them have separate schedules."},{"start":57.9,"end":58.86,"text":"Oh, yeah."},{"start":58.9,"end":59.32,"text":"Well, we could."},{"start":59.34,"end":59.92,"text":"You'd go in."},{"start":59.98,"end":62.56,"text":"You'd go in, and each of them would go out."},{"start":62.58,"end":67.71,"text":"One would visit a hospital, another would go to a nursing home, another go to a volunteer center, another go to that."},{"start":68.11,"end":69.89,"text":"And you go to the things you go to, see."},{"start":70.17,"end":73.53,"text":"You'd only meet socially at night, which is the way I've gone, see, at times."},{"start":74.29,"end":79.6,"text":"No, I think, and the idea, too, the idea of making the trip substantive is very important."},{"start":79.58,"end":81.35,"text":"Yeah, well, I put that out."},{"start":81.43,"end":82.83,"text":"Because of the substantive thing."},{"start":83.07,"end":83.23,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":83.62,"end":86.63,"text":"Listen, I have to go to another thing now."},{"start":86.65,"end":88.23,"text":"I'll talk about it later, all right?"},{"start":88.53,"end":89.12,"text":"Okay."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon suggests that First Lady Pat Nixon include several high-ranking women from the administration, such as Elizabeth Koontz, on a forthcoming diplomatic trip to increase the mission's substantive impact. Mrs. Nixon expresses hesitation, citing her previous negative experience with managing a group of cabinet wives during a trip to Mexico. To address these logistical concerns, the President proposes that the delegates follow separate, individual schedules and only join the First Lady for social events in the evening.","topics":["Pat Nixon","Diplomatic trips","Women in government","Logistics","Foreign policy","Elizabeth Koontz"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T23:30:52.595Z"},"topicSlugs":["pat-nixon","diplomatic-trips","women-in-government","logistics","foreign-policy","elizabeth-koontz"],"audioDurationSec":91,"audioFiles":[{"file":"012-006.mp3","bytes":2176103,"durationSec":90.6,"bitrate":192142,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:22.040Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:36.041Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/012-006.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-006","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/12/conversation-012-006","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}