Conversation 012-009

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Mr. President, I have the Attorney General now.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

There you are, sir.

Hello.

Yes, Mr. President.

How was Philadelphia?

How'd you get along up there?

Just great.

We had them in the aisles.

Good.

I hope, I mean, after all, Teddy Kennedy called you and Connolly and me, John Birchers.

I thought that was pretty goddamn low, didn't you?

I hadn't seen that.

When did this come over?

Oh, it was here last night.

I told Colson.

Colson, of course, gets people to answer these things, and I said, by God, no, somebody's going to answer that, or I will.

Well, it's gone too far, you know.

The Birchers, basically, as you know, are anti-Semitic and anti-Negro so far.

And if we'd have said that about them, Jesus would have been, we'd smear and the rest, and he just blithely says that the people that the President has advising him are all, and the President are all, like they're members of the John Birch Society.

He has gone too far, and I think it's hurting him.

Particularly that...

POW wives and mothers.

Crawlers.

Yes, sir.

I think that's really hurt them.

Some of the carts were devastating.

What's the latest reports?

I've just gotten in.

Howard Baker has not called.

Oh, still delaying it.

Yes, sir.

I gather he's probably looking for something hopeful.

At least I trust that's the case.

Berger did talk to him.

Berger must have felt very damn good that we're considering him, or how did he think?

He did feel very, very...

Did he think it was a good idea?

Yes.

Even though he's old?

Even though he's old.

What did he say?

What was his reaction?

I'm curious.

Berger's reaction?

Yeah.

What did he say about the age factor?

Well, he's good for eight, ten years, huh?

That's what he has been saying, what he repeated last night.

And, of course, he also felt that it would give his main interest, the court, a big shot in the arm.

Of course, everybody's looking out after their own interests, and that's one that he came down on.

Yeah.

When he reported back after having talked to Lew Powell, it sounded awfully good.

Berger thought that he would go ahead and do it.

I certainly would not after looking at some of those fossils that they've had and who they have now.

But Howard, no, he's released.

He just can't screw around forever.

I don't understand this, because when I talked to him late last night, he was just going to meet with his banker that was flying in, and he was supposed to have an answer for us this morning.

I wonder if you shouldn't call him.

I think I better.

I'll give him a call.

Now, the other thing is this, that

In my view, John, if both of them strike out, I've already come down hard on, I'd go for Smith in California.

And there's no question he's going to get a well-qualified, in my view.

I just can't see, God damn it, if he doesn't, nobody else will, you know.

elite school, either Cal or Harvard, I don't know which, and a big law firm and chairman of the Board of Regents of the University of California.

Now, by God, that's pretty hard to knock, isn't it?

It certainly should be.

So that's that.

Anybody that's reasonable and rational.

Yeah.

Now...

The other one is, I think I'd go for Mulligan.

I mean, in terms of votes, it's worth the cost, and so what the hell?

He's dean of a law school, and everybody else is, you know, they said we all should have a law school dean, and he's, so he's on a court at least.

I just don't, I know that you just think that the, I think if you appoint one outstanding one and one mediocrity, that's not too bad, is it?

I would think that they'd have to give you some good marks and some good credit, but they're not going to do it if they can help it.

You're just afraid of Mulligan, are you?

I'm not afraid of Mulligan as a person, as a judge, and his philosophy.

I have some concern about their getting on you.

as not the distinguished gentleman that it should be, etc.

But I think they'll probably do that anyway.

They'll probably have it with Smith.

They probably will.

And basically, let's face it, though, on Mulligan, this whole business about being distinguished, the dean of a law school sounds awful good to most people, doesn't it?

It certainly should.

It's the length of time he's been on there.

Yeah.

And, of course, he was a professor beforehand and practiced of law and has had these outside activities.

That's right.

Well, that's where I come down now.

Let me see if I can scrape up Baker and... Baker and Powell.

They strike out now.

If it comes down to... Well, we'll see.

If Powell takes it, then I think...

I think if it's Powell, it's going to be... Mulligan should be the other one.

That's my view.

Rather than to go for Powell and Smith.

Because Powell and Smith has a disadvantage of being two corporate lawyers.

And I think Mulligan just sounds a little better.

Well, of course, they've criticized the judge route before.

And you're politically right.

There's no question about that.

because of the Irish aspect of it, not necessarily the location.

Well, we're knocking out Lily, you see, who is a Catholic.

And I just didn't get another one.

Well, anyway, that's sort of my feeling now, but we can talk about it.

Okay.

All right, sir.

Let me see if I can get these fellows on the line.

All right.

Thank you, sir.