{"conversationCode":"012-062","tapeNumber":12,"conversationNumber":62,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-012-062","startDateTime":"1971-10-22T00:40:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-10-22T00:47:00.000Z","startDate":"21-Oct-1971","startTime":"8:40 PM","endDate":"21-Oct-1971","endTime":"8:47 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.;","description":"On October 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 8:40 pm to 8:47 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-062 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 012-062\n\nDate: October 21, 1971\nTime: 8:40 pm- 8:47 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with John N. Mitchell.\n\n     The President's speech on Supreme Court nominees, October 21, 1971\n          -Mitchell’s view\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/15/2017.\nSegment cleared for release.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[012-062-w001]\n[Duration: 29s]\n\n     The President’s speech on Supreme Court nominees, October 21, 1971\n          -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s and Martha Mitchell’s response\n               -American Bar Association [ABA]\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n            -The President’s view\n            -William H. Rehnquist\n                  -Educational background\n                  -Robert H. Jackson\n                       -George Meany\n                  -The President’s remarks\n            -Supreme Court\n                  -Warren E. Burger\n                  -Harry A. Blackmun\n                  -Lewis F. Powell, Jr.\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n                 -Rehnquist\n            -Lawrence E. Walsh’s reaction\n            -Content\n            -American Bar Association [ABA]\n\n     Supreme Court nominees\n          -Confirmation\n                -James O. Eastland\n                -Roman L. Hruska\n                -Hiram L. Fong\n                -Robert C. Byrd\n                      -Rehnquist\n                            -Views\n                            -American Civil Liberties Union [ACLU]\n          -Public relations\n                -People's Republic of China [PRC]\n                -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]\n                      -Ronald L. Ziegler\n\n     Mitchell's schedule\n          -Martha (Beall) Mitchell\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/15/2017.\nSegment cleared for release.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[012-062-w002]\n[Duration: 4s]\n\n     Supreme Court nominees\n          -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s response\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n     Supreme Court\n          -Possibility of woman appointee\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n                 -Mildred L. Lillie\n                       -Rejection by ABA\n                            -Vote\n                       -Possibility of Senate confirmation\n                            -Herschel H. Friday\n\n     Martha Mitchell","filename":["012-062.mp3"],"tapeStart":"01:57:59","tapeEnd":"02:04:46","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Mitchell, John N."],"prevCode":"012-061","nextCode":"012-063","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":4.68,"text":"This means we will have appointed, John, four good men."},{"start":4.7,"end":10.11,"text":"Everybody recognizes Berger's a good man, Blackman's a good man, Powell, everybody will recognize."},{"start":10.13,"end":17.32,"text":"And Rehnquist, of course, is the smartest of the whole goddamn bunch."},{"start":17.42,"end":24.57,"text":"And he's on our side, isn't he?"},{"start":24.59,"end":24.79,"text":"Thank God."},{"start":25.53,"end":45.66,"text":"Before I left the office, I talked to the reporters and they were flabbergasted."},{"start":45.68,"end":45.78,"text":"Yeah?"},{"start":45.8,"end":46.98,"text":"Yeah, because the commentary was completely flabbergasted."},{"start":47.44,"end":47.78,"text":"After the speech?"},{"start":47.8,"end":47.88,"text":"Yep."},{"start":47.9,"end":48.58,"text":"They were out of their minds, huh?"},{"start":48.6,"end":49.58,"text":"Yeah, not to let them go get the bar behind them."},{"start":49.6,"end":49.96,"text":"What did Walt say?"},{"start":49.98,"end":50.46,"text":"He must have about died."},{"start":50.48,"end":52.24,"text":"He died a little bit about my letters, and he was very enthusiastic about these letters."},{"start":52.97,"end":60.74,"text":"Well, it doesn't help because he's impressed that he's first in the small class."},{"start":60.76,"end":61.34,"text":"I'm not a goddamn bet."},{"start":61.36,"end":72.49,"text":"I'm more interested in the man."},{"start":72.51,"end":72.77,"text":"That's right."},{"start":72.79,"end":73.37,"text":"I really built him up."},{"start":73.88,"end":78.18,"text":"You know, and I talked about respect for law, whether you agree or not, obey the law and all that."},{"start":78.34,"end":92.5,"text":"And they ought to appreciate it, the bastards."},{"start":92.52,"end":96.1,"text":"Yeah, I think, too, that it was good to get across by law and order point."},{"start":96.12,"end":97.93,"text":"That got across, don't you think?"},{"start":98.31,"end":120.17,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":120.19,"end":120.29,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":120.31,"end":120.43,"text":"Right."},{"start":120.45,"end":120.57,"text":"Right."},{"start":120.59,"end":120.69,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":121.65,"end":123.39,"text":"Well, we'll fight it through now."},{"start":123.45,"end":127.84,"text":"By God, I'm telling you now, we're not going to take a damn bit of crap from these people."},{"start":127.86,"end":132.04,"text":"They ought to put this through in a week."},{"start":132.1,"end":136.99,"text":"How's Eastland feel?"},{"start":137.11,"end":137.79,"text":"Ruska, I saw tonight."},{"start":137.91,"end":139.15,"text":"He was there down at the White House."},{"start":139.17,"end":147.42,"text":"He said he was bored all the way."},{"start":147.44,"end":148.7,"text":"How'd Bob take it, okay?"},{"start":149.91,"end":163.59,"text":"Be sure to emphasize to all the southerners that Brennquist is a reactionary bastard."},{"start":163.61,"end":173.82,"text":"Which I hope to Christ he is."},{"start":173.84,"end":173.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":173.98,"end":174.22,"text":"Good."},{"start":174.24,"end":177.62,"text":"Good."},{"start":177.65,"end":177.76,"text":"Right."},{"start":177.78,"end":179.79,"text":"One thing that's really interesting though, John, is that"},{"start":180.37,"end":189.57,"text":"In a pure press sense, it's like China, in a lesser degree of magnitude, but China, Soviet, the other things."},{"start":190.75,"end":193.16,"text":"The bastards, we completely took them by surprise."},{"start":193.2,"end":195.78,"text":"They didn't know what the hell was going to hit them."},{"start":196.1,"end":197.8,"text":"Didn't that amuse you?"},{"start":199.57,"end":211.88,"text":"It amused the hell out of me."},{"start":211.9,"end":212.24,"text":"We kept it quiet."},{"start":212.26,"end":212.86,"text":"You know, Ron did a great job."},{"start":212.88,"end":214.16,"text":"He really did a great job."},{"start":214.19,"end":215.27,"text":"They were running around with their headphones on."},{"start":215.29,"end":215.59,"text":"That's right."},{"start":215.61,"end":216.39,"text":"Anyway, you tell Martha to calm down."},{"start":220.25,"end":229.58,"text":"Well, incidentally, we've got to have a woman, John."},{"start":229.6,"end":230.12,"text":"That's right."},{"start":230.58,"end":232.34,"text":"She understands it, doesn't she?"},{"start":232.37,"end":233.27,"text":"She can't go in."},{"start":233.73,"end":240.79,"text":"Look, if she'd have gone in 11 to 1 against her, the Senate couldn't have approved her."},{"start":240.82,"end":241.48,"text":"I know you did."},{"start":241.5,"end":243.92,"text":"It must have been terrible."},{"start":243.94,"end":248.49,"text":"Friday would have understood, but I bet she was tough, wasn't she?"},{"start":249.02,"end":251.81,"text":"But how did she feel?"},{"start":251.83,"end":254.69,"text":"Did she take it all right finally?"},{"start":254.71,"end":255.87,"text":"11 to 1."},{"start":256.27,"end":257.17,"text":"God damn, damn."},{"start":258.71,"end":269.45,"text":"Right."},{"start":269.47,"end":269.63,"text":"Good."},{"start":269.67,"end":270.17,"text":"Okay, John."},{"start":271.35,"end":271.73,"text":"Bye."},{"start":272.57,"end":273.33,"text":"Give Martha hell."},{"start":274.34,"end":275.2,"text":"It's the other way around."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Mitchell discuss the positive reception and strategic impact of Nixon's recent Supreme Court nominations, specifically highlighting William H. Rehnquist and Lewis F. Powell, Jr. The two emphasize the effectiveness of blindsiding the press with these appointments and discuss the necessity of maintaining a firm stance during the upcoming Senate confirmation process. They also address the political complications surrounding potential female nominees, noting the rejection of Mildred L. Lillie by the American Bar Association.","topics":["Supreme Court nominations","William H. Rehnquist","Senate confirmation","Public relations","John N. Mitchell"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T23:35:51.481Z"},"topicSlugs":["supreme-court-nominations","william-h-rehnquist","senate-confirmation","public-relations","john-n-mitchell"],"audioDurationSec":277,"audioFiles":[{"file":"012-062.mp3","bytes":6648684,"durationSec":276.96,"bitrate":192044,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:22.040Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:36.050Z","transcriptGapSeconds":42,"transcriptGapShare":0.15,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/012-062.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-062","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/12/conversation-012-062","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}