Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 12 › Conversation 012-069
Nixon, Rogers & Meany on Supreme Court appointments and Lewis F. Powell Jr.
Thursday, October 21, 1971 · 9:13 PM–9:21 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min
AI Summary
President Nixon consulted with Secretary of State William Rogers and AFL-CIO leader George Meany to gauge their reactions to his recent Supreme Court nominations of Lewis F. Powell, Jr. and William H. Rehnquist. The conversations emphasized the nominees' commitment to law and order and their lack of anti-labor bias, which helped secure Meany’s preliminary support. Nixon also reflected on the authorship of his October 21 speech and discussed the ongoing challenges of finding qualified female candidates for judicial appointments.
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data
· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Each line starts with a timestamp button; press it to play the audio from that point.
Hello?
Secretary Rogers, sir.
Hello?
There you are.
Mr. President?
Bill, I think we sort of surprised the boys today.
Yeah, you knocked them off the stand.
They really... We appointed two damn good men.
Oh, they're outstanding.
You probably know Lou Powell.
Lou Powell, of course, I know well.
And I talked to John about him one way or just below, but I think that's fine.
He's in good health.
Well, he'll stay there for ten years.
And Rehnquist, of course, is really...
He's one of those great brains, you know, that comes along
well, for Christ's sake, first in his class at Stanford and all the rest of us.
And I've talked to him about constitutional problems, and he's so far ahead of all the other people that I knew he had what it took.
That's great.
I thought the whole thing was just absolutely perfect.
I thought your delivery was great.
Again, you're getting better.
I thought that you had so much animation.
Incidentally, I'm over here at the Blair House.
Oh, you're still there?
Oh, I see.
And we've had a good meeting with all these top people.
Would you...
I think it might be wise George Meany's here and he's quite enthusiastic about these moves and he was telling me that he didn't he says I don't really like to fight with the president I said I I regret this has happened and he said I think it could have been avoided and he was telling me how lousy George Kennedy was now he's talking about the governor's no good he's thought the only one the Democrats had anything with anybody Jack I wonder with how about you talking to him?
Sure, is he there?
Yeah, he's right there
Sure, ask him if you can talk to him.
Well, I don't know how you could have done better.
You know, on this speech, as you probably would guess, I wrote it myself last night about 2 o'clock in the morning.
Oh, that?
Because I couldn't tell anybody.
I couldn't get Sapphire Price there, so I did it all myself.
It was great.
It wasn't great, but it was mine.
I thought from the standpoint of effectiveness and sincerity and directness as far as people are concerned, they would have understood it was an icon.
I thought it was great.
And I'm not just saying that because I think it was.
And of course, after it was over, everybody here applauded.
We all went to one room and watched.
And they all applauded.
Well, there weren't any women.
You know, we asked the ABA to say, well, if you don't want her, DM me.
And Ed Walsh says that Lily is the best qualified because of her experience, but there's no woman who's qualified to be in the Supreme Court.
That's what they told us.
Well, as a matter of fact, what you've got to do with me now is to get some younger women.
I told Mitchell Kirchhammer to take Sylvia Bacon and put her on the circuit court.
Load her up.
She's no good?
I don't want her there.
God damn it, I don't see any woman's worth in the dam, but maybe there must be one subject.
There's got to be some, but she's a real outstanding liberal.
Maybe she changed a little lately.
That's enough, that's enough.
Don't tell me anything.
Anyway, these two are great.
Let me get Georgia.
Do you want me to call her?
No, I'll hold off.
Thank you.
Hello.
President, how are you tonight?
How are you?
Well... My first reaction is good.
I don't know too much about these fellas, but what I know so far is good.
And they look all right.
I mean, I've got a... Well, let me say... Everything Bill Rogers tells me about the Powell is awfully good.
Let me tell you about both of them.
What about Rumsfeld?
I don't know him too well, but he looks good too.
Well, first of all, both of them, I've checked them both,
And they're both, which I know you will approve, are very hard in law and order, which I think we all agree we've got to have.
You can't have a society like that, Warren.
You notice what I said, that by golly, we've got to strengthen the peace forces.
And both of them are hard on that.
On the labor thing, George, I mean, part of the problem that some of them have suggested before is that they had records, you know, and everything.
I don't think Lou Powell, who has represented, of course, he's basically a corporation of
But he's never been involved in labor things.
And Rehnquist has no record whatever.
I have no objection to a corporation lawyer.
I mean, that's their business.
I do object, of course, to a guy who goes out of his way to push people around, little people.
That's right.
And from all I can understand, these guys look good, Mr. President.
Well...
I want to take another look when I get... Well, you should.
But I think from what I see, I think they both look good.
Well, I can assure you that I had Mitchell check those things.
I said, now look here, I don't want a guy that's got a record where he's sort of anti-labor.
And neither one, Mitchell tells me, is.
But you check it yourself.
Yeah, I will check.
At this moment, they both look good.
I want to be frank with you, but we'll make a check in the morning.
Good.
Frankly, I hope that we are in a position that we can say amen.
Really, I do.
It would be great if you could.
Yeah.
Really would.
Yeah.
Well, good to talk to you, George.
Fine.
Bye.
Thank you.
NARA Description
On October 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, William P. Rogers, and George Meany talked on the telephone from 9:13 pm to 9:21 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-069 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No.012-069
Date: October 21, 1971
Time: 9:13 pm- 9:21 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with William P. Rogers.
Supreme Court appointments
-Lewis F. Powell, Jr.
-John N. Mitchell
-William H. Rehnquist
-The President's speech delivery
-Rogers view
Rogers’ schedule
-Blair House
-George Meany
-Supreme Court appointments
-Edward M. Kennedy
-George S. McGovern
-Henry M. ("Scoop") Jackson
-Possible telephone conversation
The President's speech, October 21, 1971
-Authorship
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-William L. Safire, Raymond K. Price, Jr.
******************************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/15/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[012-069-w001]
[Duration: 9s]
The President’s speech, October 21, 1971
-Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon’s response
******************************************************************************
-Possibility of female appointee
-American Bar Association [ABA]
-Lawrence E. Walsh
-Mildred L. Lillie
-Women
-Mitchell
-Sylvia Bacon
-Possible appointment
Supreme Court appointees
The President's schedule
-Meany
The President talked with Meany at an unknown time between 9:13 pm and 9:21 pm.
Supreme Court appointees
-Meany's reaction
-Rogers
-Powell
-Rehnquist
-Law and order
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Labor
-Powell
-Rehnquist
-MitchellAlso recorded on October 22, 1971
- 012-063 8:48 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 8:48 pm.
- 012-064 8:48 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, and Manolo Sanchez talked on the telephone from 8:48 pm to 8:56 pm.
- 012-065 8:56 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:56 pm and 9:00 pm.
- 012-066 8:56 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:56 pm and 9:00 pm.
- 012-067 9:00 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 9:00 pm to 9:02 pm.
- 012-068 9:03 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Warren E. Burger talked on the telephone from 9:03 pm to 9:13 pm.
- 012-070 9:21 PM · 29 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:21 pm.
- 012-071 9:21 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 9:21 pm to 9:31 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 012-069, October 22, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-069 (accessed October 12, 2026).