Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 012-087
Date: Friday, October 22, 1971 at 5:20 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Harlow, Bryce N.; [Unknown person(s)]
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-087
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417191677 (NAID 417191677)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello.
[0:01] Mr. Harlow, sir.
[0:03] Yeah.
[0:04] You are.
[0:05] Hi, Bryce.
[0:05] How are you?
[0:06] Well, I appreciate very much you taking my call.
[0:09] I don't like to bother you.
[0:11] Oh, not at all.
[0:12] I called you.
[0:14] Number one, I just wanted to hear what you did last night.
[0:17] Oh, thank you.
[0:18] Oh, God, it was great.
[0:19] We sort of stuck it to him a little.
[0:21] Well, I think that this is one of your great things.
[0:24] I really mean it.
[0:26] These are both good men, you know.
[0:27] Powell's a little old, but as I said to Kilpo, or one of the fellows afterwards, one of the press guys, I said, look, 10 years of Powell is worth 30 for most others.
[0:36] Well, in any case, you have finessed this beautifully and done good for the court, and you looked good, and you made a bunch of asses out of a whole bunch of asses.
[0:45] In other words, they don't know, huh?
[0:48] They sure must.
[0:49] I called you about the thing we discussed the other day.
[0:51] Yeah, yeah, that's what I...
[0:52] I'm not trying to pry into that or bother you with it, but I... No, go ahead.
[0:55] We haven't decided the thing.
[0:57] Well, I suspect that probably you hadn't, and I wanted to give you some input.
[1:00] No.
[1:00] That's right.
[1:00] Go right ahead.
[1:01] Have you been advised yet about Henry's status?
[1:04] Not at all.
[1:05] You see, we run into the Constitution.
[1:08] Oh, that's right.
[1:10] He can't take a post.
[1:13] No member of the Senate elected in 1968 can take a post until their term expires.
[1:20] That's right.
[1:21] So let's forget that.
[1:22] So there's no member of the Senate.
[1:24] Because he was elected then, yeah.
[1:26] That's right.
[1:27] House guys are all absolved now, but no member of the Senate like that can be sent out.
[1:32] And I'm embarrassed that it bothers you with that.
[1:35] And I just wanted to give you the way it looks, because this leaves you, I think, three valid candidates, two in the department and our friend out in Indiana.
[1:46] And it seems to me, as you measure that out carefully, and for your private information, I had a long two-hour chat about all of this with Hardin today at lunch, on his initiative, not mine.
[1:58] And he was just talking about it and how it looks to him.
[2:02] One is the Undersecretary, and the other is Palmby, and the other is Butt.
[2:09] Of those, I think that you are driven almost irresistibly to Palmby, as a man who has been running the department in effect in many ways anyhow, and a man whom you came close to appointing in 1968.
[2:24] Remember, you were under very heavy pressure to appoint him then, by almost the entire Republican side of the Congress, if you'll recall that.
[2:33] I say that in lieu of Campbell, whom I like very much.
[2:39] But the trouble is, he's anathema to the Farm Bureau.
[2:44] You know, he's in the Farm Bureau, but it's the Georgia Farm Bureau, and it always is at war with the National Farm Bureau.
[2:52] And it just won't float for that reason, I don't think, although it would be popular, of course, in the South.
[2:59] farm, you would go right up the smokestack.
[3:03] Palmby is a highly competent man in the field.
[3:07] He's a farmer also.
[3:10] On Earl Butts, Earl Butts two things.
[3:14] One is the Benson thing we discussed, and the other is that he is an academicist instead of a farmer.
[3:20] And so I'd put him third.
[3:23] I think that's where you are, and I just wanted to... Well, you think Palmby, then, huh?
[3:29] I would say so.
[3:30] And I wanted to ask you...
[3:31] He's sure not very impressive fellow, is he?
[3:34] Not in that sense.
[3:37] We can't get a better salesman.
[3:38] Well, he's respected, though.
[3:44] He's respected as a very highly competent technician in this field.
[3:49] And I think, therefore, it would be well received.
[3:51] Now, I wanted to ask you to leave to do something about this.
[3:54] Yeah.
[3:55] Give you a little more steerage.
[3:57] Sure.
[3:57] Yes, I want you to do it, and I want you to go right after the thing.
[4:00] Well, this was the thought I had.
[4:03] I wanted to leave to have a frank little private chat with Henry now.
[4:07] He's not eligible, you see.
[4:08] Yeah, yeah, of course.
[4:09] And ask him how he feels about the Pompey-Campbell
[4:15] You see what this practical farmer, politician thinks would be just to get his input for you.
[4:24] Yeah, okay.
[4:24] Which you'll get from that conference.
[4:27] Well, I guess it's just out of the question to try to go to anybody outside.
[4:34] Well, it's Butts there, of course.
[4:35] Well, Butts, well, I know, but you think that's out because he's Farm Bureau.
[4:39] I think...
[4:39] I mean, Benson, Benson, Benson.
[4:41] He's Benson, and he's an academician.
[4:43] Yeah.
[4:45] Another professor.
[4:46] Another professor.
[4:46] Pompey is, too, a professor, isn't he?
[4:48] No, sir.
[4:49] No.
[4:49] No, no.
[4:50] He was head of the feed grain operations in Washington.
[4:53] Yeah.
[4:53] Came into the department.
[4:54] There isn't anybody, there's no young guy or anything, nothing who's a farmer.
[5:01] I just think some cattlemen, they are not the right kind.
[5:05] How about a milk producer?
[5:06] In the area you want.
[5:07] How about a milk producer?
[5:10] I went over all of this in meticulous care with the secretary at noontime.
[5:14] Exploring the academicians, the heads of the agriculture.
[5:18] Don't give me an academician.
[5:19] The state agriculture leaders, you know, the government.
[5:23] There's nobody there.
[5:24] Yeah.
[5:24] Yeah.
[5:29] I'm ignoring, of course, Louie for the purpose of my discussion.
[5:34] Yeah, I think you're right, too.
[5:35] I really don't think he's right.
[5:37] It won't wash. Well, Palmby may be the best.
[5:40] Although Palmby will just look like a continuation of what we're doing, so that doesn't help us much, does it?
[5:47] If people don't like what we're doing, Bryce, putting Palmby in doesn't change it.
[5:53] Well, that's true, but the way this area is going to go is what you've got out there in the summer of next year.
[6:01] Yeah.
[6:01] Not the way it is right now.
[6:02] Yeah, fine.
[6:04] Isn't it?
[6:04] Right.
[6:05] Well, that's right.
[6:06] Well, I'll tell you, you look it over and give me your best judgment by Tuesday.
[6:10] Can you do that?
[6:11] Yes, sir.
[6:12] Okay.
[6:12] And I'll give you the input out of Henry.
[6:14] All right.
[6:15] All right.
[6:15] Thank you.
[6:16] Bye.