Nixon phone call with Rogers on United Nations and People's Republic of China

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Mr. President, Secretary Rogers returning your call.

Okay.

Mr. President, sir.

Hello.

Hello, Mr. President.

Well, you're not playing golf today, are you?

No, sir.

No, I just spent the whole two or three hours with the foreign minister of Mexico, who's a terrible bore.

Yeah.

I can't tell.

You know what's happened, Mr. President, on these things is that the

The Communists have been pretty clever.

They have worked it out with Belgium and Peru to establish diplomatic relations, and they have it announced tomorrow, just before the vote.

They've been damn clever people.

We had Peru on our side.

We did, really?

Well, we changed their mind.

Velasco said he'd agree with us, and then after the foreign minister

talked to him later on and then he reversed his position again and said they were going to announce the diplomatic relations and they were afraid that it would upset their plans if they voted with us.

Well, you can tell them it doesn't upset our plans.

Yeah, well, we've told them everything we can tell them, I must say.

I know you have, sure.

Well, God damn it, you get an A for effort, and that's important.

Well, I tell you, I don't suppose in the history of the country we've ever made a more vigorous effort.

Well, you know, really, when you come down to it, you've been up there seeing 95 ministers and talking to them, and my God, I don't think in the history of the country the president's ever made long-term calls before.

I know.

To a king, a prime minister, a president.

That's right.

And, you know, we really put the heat on them.

But I think it does show that we've got the...

start looking to see who our friends are and we've got to play it real hard because taking this case on mexico i told him i told him i said look at you your president has established a very good rapport with president nixon he's just going to lose it i mean we just you put it that way that's right good i said we're going to have good relations with you and so forth

Well, but the Belgians are going to go the other way, are they?

I'm afraid so.

I talked to Harmel, and I told him that you'd talk to their prime minister if he thought of being a guy.

He said, we could give you an explanation.

I said, I don't want an explanation.

I want your vote.

That's a good way to tell him.

Well, they've been good, but... Well, Harmel himself has been awfully good.

I know, I know, and he probably wants it, and...

i think he may have to resign as a result of this poor fella they've had a major problem over there and the socialists are against him and uh i have a long telegram about it and he's he's been a very good friend i know he has he's a first-class man well i guess it wouldn't do to call our prime minister not at this point not unless unless we think that has some chance um

I'll keep in touch with you.

I'm glad you kept on Peru, though.

Keep to you and Velasco.

We could do something for Peru.

I mean, it isn't going to hurt their relations with the Chinese.

For Christ's sakes, what the hell goods are their relations with the Chinese going to do them?

Well, that's the point.

What goods are going to do them compared with what good we can do them?

That's right.

The Chinese haven't got anything to sell them.

They haven't got anything to buy from them.

That's what I mean, to buy from them.

And they just are playing for their...

They're trading something very good for something very uncertain.

But they all think they can count on us.

They can take us for granted.

That's right.

We've got to change that.

They've got to feel that we do not take these things lightly.

And incidentally, I feel that if it works that way, that we won't make any announcements or anything, but just on such, for example, on such, as I mentioned,

Things that are symbolic, but to them very important.

Visits and so forth.

By God, I'm not going to see them.

That's right.

We could at least take that away.

And then when we get to the aid things in the rest of the countries that are with us, we'll help.

And the others, Christ, let the Chinese help them.

Exactly.

They want to choose them.

They go to China for their help.

Exactly.

They've chosen their way.

I couldn't agree more.

I just think that's how we have to handle it, and we can't say it publicly.

Not a word, and let's never even leak or anything of that sort, but as you well know, these things come across the desk every day.

and just say, no, we won't recommend a visit, by the way, and I'm not going to see them.

I have never.

Sengar or these bastards are hell with them.

I'm not going to see them again.

I haven't been involved in something as much as this since the campaign, I don't think, in 60.

Yeah.

I've been on the phone every second with these people, and I tell you...

You haven't got many chips, huh?

Yeah, we don't have many chips.

We do have many chips, but they don't believe that the United States, when the chips are down, will ever be anything but tolerant.

Is that it?

Exactly.

Because we never have been.

We've always...

I'm glad you have taken a very strong position on Yendi, incidentally.

That's been good.

I mean, that at least shows that we've got a...

Something, and on Peru, by God, we'll do the same thing.

Yeah.

Well, Peru has been pretty good, though, lately.

They've been...

I know, I know.

On this vote.

On this vote, yes.

That's what I meant.

On this, we've got to slap them on the wrist a little, don't you think?

That's right.

i mean way down deep inside i think that's true of europe too bill it is it's certainly true of france you take france the uh the british they basically have a position we can understand but the europeans a lot of them are i think under the circle they uh they just feel well there's just a jealousy and envy of the united states there's no doubt about it and uh they're going to take it out on us well

We just have to do a few things ourselves.

I couldn't agree more, though, that I think we've got to re-examine our support of the multilateral organizations.

No doubt about it.

We really have to re-examine it.

We pour in that money.

You know, I stopped to think of the time for

for IDA and all the rest.

Good God, that was in the 69, how, you know, we put a lot of prestige behind getting the Congress to approve it when they didn't want to.

Well, to hell with it.

Next time, we won't do it.

We don't get any credit at all for that.

They just take that for granted.

Do they?

Absolutely.

One and all.

I'll be damned.

Well, look, let me tell you, don't have anybody send over to me the next time.

Well, we've got to support IDA, or we've got to support

uh that's uh inter-american development or did it to hell with it we'll we'll find some other things to support you know with all the thing is that with all the bitching about foreign aid so-called god damn it that's what the congress ought to be approving they ought to approve foreign aid so that we we can do it directly exactly and we'll get a few of these congressmen and senators in after this thing i think you should say look let's have some cold turkey talks about what is in our interest

And we help here, we don't help there.

Passman will help us on that.

Oh, he'll be great.

Yeah.

We can use him.

Use him, because these international organizations, he's got that big list, you know.

That's right.

And so, all right, Otto.

John Rooney will be helpful, too.

And we'll go to Terrible Otto, we'll get him in.

And say, all right, how about some of these?

Well, he'll cut their balls off.

Also, I must say, the UN isn't going to do very well in its appropriation next time.

They're not going to.

Jerry Sports says he's only going to be able to get half of what we've had in the past.

That's right.

So they're going to have problems.

Utah will have to cut down its staff.

That's too bad.

It's too bad.

There's that many less against us.

That's a fact.

Well, anyway, keep at it.

You never know.

You might still win it.

Well, we're about even right now.

Sort of a long shot.

That's right.

All right, Mr. President.

Thank you very much.

Bye.

Nixon phone call with Rogers on United Nations and People's Republic of China

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 25, 1971

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