{"conversationCode":"013-023","tapeNumber":13,"conversationNumber":23,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-013-023","startDateTime":"1971-10-29T12:26:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-10-29T12:30:00.000Z","startDate":"29-Oct-1971","startTime":"8:26 AM","endDate":"29-Oct-1971","endTime":"8:30 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Scott, Hugh;","description":"On October 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Hugh Scott talked on the telephone from 8:26 am to 8:30 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 013-023 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 013-023\n\nDate: October 29, 1971\nTime: 8:26 am - 8:30 am\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\nThe President talked with Hugh Scott.\n\n[See Conversation No. 607-2]\n\n     President's schedule\n           -Josip Broz Tito\n\n     Senate vote\n          -Importance\n                -Vietnam negotiations\n                     -Prisoners of war [POWs]\n\n     Vietnam\n          -Casualties\n          -Attitudes of Senators\n\n     United Nations [UN] vote on Taiwan\n          -Scott's statement\n          -George H.W. Bush's conversation with the President\n          -Arab leader's statement\n                -Israel\n          -South Africa, Portugal, Greece\n\n     Senate vote\n          -William E. Brock, III's amendment\n          -President's schedule","filename":["013-023.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:52:19","tapeEnd":"00:55:03","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Scott, Hugh"],"prevCode":"013-022","nextCode":"013-024","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":2.52,"text":"Senator Scott, Mr. President."},{"start":3.64,"end":4.44,"text":"Hello, Mr. President."},{"start":4.46,"end":10.25,"text":"I was tied up with Tito last night, so I didn't get to call you, but that was just a great victory in the Senate."},{"start":10.27,"end":19.09,"text":"And as you know, and as you said so well, it was essential because..."},{"start":19.91,"end":27.4,"text":"to have such a unbelievably irresponsible restriction built in would just mean you'd call home."},{"start":27.44,"end":33.12,"text":"I mean, any negotiation leaves you no options in negotiating for the prison return, for example."},{"start":33.64,"end":38.1,"text":"And, you know, it's an unbelievably bad thing."},{"start":38.08,"end":41.57,"text":"I can't understand some of my colleagues sometimes."},{"start":41.59,"end":41.83,"text":"I know."},{"start":41.85,"end":44.7,"text":"Well, another thing here is what in the hell do they think we're doing?"},{"start":45.16,"end":48.74,"text":"Look at the casualties this week or seven or last week or five."},{"start":48.76,"end":49.28,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":50.23,"end":52.39,"text":"The wars, they know we're getting out."},{"start":52.41,"end":53.27,"text":"What do they want?"},{"start":53.43,"end":54.23,"text":"What are they trying to do?"},{"start":54.51,"end":59.66,"text":"I can't believe it's much more than a desire to just get the credit."},{"start":59.86,"end":63.19,"text":"Yeah, in other words, the people that got us in want to get the credit for getting us out."},{"start":63.21,"end":63.57,"text":"Is that it?"},{"start":63.55,"end":64.63,"text":"That's what I believe."},{"start":66.17,"end":70.22,"text":"There's no other explanation for the illogicality of this stuff."},{"start":70.23,"end":71.46,"text":"Yeah, that's right."},{"start":72.16,"end":73.48,"text":"I was not sure we'd win."},{"start":73.5,"end":76.46,"text":"That's why I didn't want to tell your people that I was sure of it."},{"start":76.5,"end":80.35,"text":"But thank goodness it did work."},{"start":80.37,"end":82.41,"text":"Well, I'll tell you, I think it is just great."},{"start":83.95,"end":88.05,"text":"And we certainly appreciate it."},{"start":88.89,"end":89.68,"text":"What you've done."},{"start":90,"end":90.46,"text":"Okay."},{"start":90.52,"end":94.6,"text":"And I thought what you said about the U.N. was good."},{"start":94.62,"end":96.47,"text":"That description of the hot pants."},{"start":97.95,"end":99.03,"text":"Hot pants principalities."},{"start":99.05,"end":107.42,"text":"You know, really, George Bush was telling me how they came and danced the jig in front of his desk."},{"start":107.44,"end":108.32,"text":"Well, now, God damn it."},{"start":108.34,"end":110.28,"text":"You know, we can accept loss."},{"start":110.36,"end":115.17,"text":"I mean, after all, in a democratic system we believe in, we win some, we lose some."},{"start":116.17,"end":121.94,"text":"But these little countries that we've done so much for don't have to come in and insult and humiliate the United States."},{"start":122.42,"end":124.05,"text":"And that hurt the UN badly."},{"start":124.21,"end":130.12,"text":"Well, I've been rubbing salt in it by pointing out that this Arab leader had mentioned that Israel is next."},{"start":130.78,"end":134.83,"text":"I thought that'd take care of that New York liberal sentiment for the UN."},{"start":134.89,"end":135.41,"text":"Very good."},{"start":136.03,"end":137.35,"text":"Israel, the Arabs will go after it."},{"start":137.41,"end":140.58,"text":"Incidentally, you were not far wrong to go after Israel."},{"start":140.68,"end":143.9,"text":"Of course, South Africa, it's a cinch to go out now, I think."},{"start":144.03,"end":146.41,"text":"Portugal, maybe, which would crack NATO."},{"start":146.43,"end":147.79,"text":"Then they'll go after Greece."},{"start":148.41,"end":150.04,"text":"Well, anyway, good luck."},{"start":150.4,"end":150.86,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":150.92,"end":153.83,"text":"Tell the other fellows that worked on it I called, will you, Hugh?"},{"start":154.53,"end":157.45,"text":"Because I'm tied up with some more of Tito's stuff today."},{"start":157.51,"end":157.85,"text":"I will."},{"start":157.91,"end":161.18,"text":"Bill Brock did a good job on his amendment, too, and I'll tell him."},{"start":161.3,"end":161.88,"text":"Great."},{"start":161.91,"end":162.31,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":162.57,"end":163.11,"text":"You tell him."},{"start":163.13,"end":163.79,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Senator Hugh Scott discuss the political victory of defeating restrictive Senate amendments regarding Vietnam, which the President argued would have hindered ongoing negotiations and POW returns. They express frustration over the motives of congressional opponents, characterizing them as driven by a desire for political credit rather than strategy. Additionally, the pair discusses the recent UN vote on Taiwan, criticizing the perceived humiliation of the United States by smaller nations and noting the potential for further geopolitical instability regarding Israel, Portugal, and Greece.","topics":["Vietnam War","Senate","United Nations","Foreign Policy","Prisoners of War","Legislative Strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T23:44:08.072Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","senate","united-nations","foreign-policy","prisoners-of-war","legislative-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":164,"audioFiles":[{"file":"013-023.mp3","bytes":3947832,"durationSec":164.44,"bitrate":192066,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:22.041Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:36.403Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/013-023.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/013-023","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/13/conversation-013-023","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}