Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 13 › Conversation 013-031
Nixon, Colson & Kissinger on United Nations and Taiwan
Friday, October 29, 1971 · 2:42 PM–2:50 PM ET · White House Telephone · 8 min
AI Summary
President Nixon, Charles Colson, and Henry Kissinger discuss recent political developments, focusing on the public reaction to the U.N. vote regarding Taiwan and the President's upcoming trip to China. They analyze Senator Hugh Scott's effective leadership, the political fallout from the U.N. proceedings, and the ongoing public interest in the Harris Poll. Additionally, Nixon instructs Colson to coordinate a private, off-the-record meeting between Arthur Burns and a group of influential business leaders to communicate an optimistic outlook on the national economy.
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Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, how's the battle today?
Well, I think it's going well.
The talk of the town is the Harris Bowl.
The one you sent out, yeah?
Well, it was in this morning's Washington Post.
The Post carried it?
They ended up carrying it, yes, sir.
I'll be damned.
The story that they no longer had the Harris Bowl was not true, wasn't it?
Well, what they did, for a couple of weeks they didn't carry them.
I think this one was such hot news that they just had to...
They are, however, kind of acing him up.
They used to give him very good billing on the inside front.
They don't anymore.
But I think they just had to carry this one because it was too good a story.
Come on in, Henry.
But the Newsweek people have been calling everybody over here wanting to know what people think of it.
Right.
Incidentally, that was an awfully good vote we had yesterday.
Wasn't that a good vote?
That was, I called Scott.
You know, I just feel, I mean, Henry just walked in.
I'm just so, the damn Senate is so disgraceful here because I said, Hugh, what do they really think they're doing?
And he said, well...
They're just trying to get in and take credit for what they know you're already doing.
That's right, exactly.
And the process, they will screw up our negotiations if they get a... Well, he's done a beautiful job up there this week, Mr. President.
Scott, yeah.
He really, gosh, he is...
He did a very good job on the U.N. thing, too, didn't he?
For the last two weeks, it started with the court appointments when he really slapped his colleagues down for speculating on them, and then when he...
the UN thing, he was terrific, took the lead on it.
That hot pants thing was terrific.
Of course, he's a great phrase maker.
And he did a damn good job yesterday.
I think he was, maybe he's beginning to feel a little more secure.
More secure, and he may, and he, of course, as you know,
Chuck reflects poles enormously.
He's like the willow tree, Mr. President.
You know, the winds blow and he bends.
Oh, sure he does.
Of course he reflects them.
And he's reading these poles.
Casualty figures were well played this week.
Did they get a good play on them or change?
They got a marvelous play.
They should, for God's sakes.
It's the third week in a row, less than ten.
Well, they made that point very effectively, I think.
Incidentally, would you do something...
You know that television of the U.N. thing?
Yes, sir.
Get that shown so that Henry can see it, will you?
Yes, we'll have it.
You've apparently shown it to some people.
I have.
They were telling me they were really outraged.
How long is it run, five minutes, ten minutes?
Oh, it takes about, if you watch the NBC segments, which are the longest, about 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes?
It's well worth seeing.
And you just put it on the White House line?
Yes, sir.
If Henry just lets me know...
I'll have it run for him anytime.
Fine.
And it's quite a show, huh?
Oh, God.
And you should actually listen to Bush's comments about it.
Of course, he did a very fine job yesterday.
We had that background for him.
She really laid it to him, huh?
Oh, boy.
He told the whole story of how they came down and danced in front of his desk and how he'd received apologies from a number of nations.
He had received personal apologies from a number of the delegates and from...
the countries, so that...
Personal apologies.
Yes, sir.
Well, that's the proof positive that they did it.
The minute you made your comments, the networks tried to make it look like they hadn't done it, but the fact that they're apologizing for it, perfectly obvious they did do it.
Well, it seems to me that the U.N. thing just about... You know, it's a funny thing that Sir Henry was remarking this morning.
If those fellows hadn't overreacted,
we would then have had the issue of Taiwan being thrown out.
But by their overreaction, the issue has turned to them.
That's exactly right.
Do you agree?
Well, what they did was to cause all of the heat to be turned against the United Nations.
I mean, they put on such a sorry spectacle.
It was interesting, as I told you last night, Cashin was up in New York.
The Navy League.
Navy League, 2,500 conservatives.
Really, I mean, hawkish.
When they gave the toast to the...
President, when they talked about you, he said twice during the evening there were standing ovations for you.
And the reason that there was such bitterness up there is apparently the New York stations had carried the proceedings live on Monday night.
And a lot of those fellows had seen it, and they were just up in arms over the U.N., which is the point that Henry was saying, that if they hadn't done that,
All those guys would have been up there grumbling about China being thrown out.
Well, let's keep it off over there for a while.
We don't need to talk any more about it.
No, I think it'll die down.
Jackson took a swipe at us yesterday, as you doubtless saw in the news summary.
And there'll be a little bit of a... For losing?
For losing, yeah.
That's what everybody says.
Well, he said you pledged in July when you said you were going to China that...
You would protect Taiwan, and by golly, you hadn't kept your promise.
Oh, my God.
Isn't that terrible?
They're just having a time.
They're trying to find something to squeal about.
Well, they're desperate.
But it's a passing phenomenon, Mr. President.
Let me mention one other thing while I...
Yes, sir.
Henry just came in.
In talking to Arthur yesterday...
He said that all this business about acquitting and everything is a bunch of crap.
And I said, why don't you go up and tell some people?
He says, I'd do it.
He says, if you don't.
So I'd like for you to talk to Flanagan and get a group of, it should be without the press, but a group of 40 or 50 of the top people, the Gus Levy, you know, the...
What's our other friend over there?
Bunny Lasker.
Oh, Bunny Lasker, Al Gordon.
Al Gordon.
Fine.
Get a group of them like the kind that I came down here.
About 70 of them.
And Arthur would go up and he'd really tell them.
He says, these guys are all crazy.
I would be delighted if you'll do it.
No, he told me he would.
And I told him I was going to tell you.
But I mean, you get Pete in the act.
Because I told him that you and Pete had worked something out.
Because he says, I don't know what... You know, he doesn't know any forums.
He did the Calvin Bullock Forum.
Well...
That's fine, but that isn't representative enough.
Well, we could get a dinner hosted for him.
Have a dinner.
A dinner.
have it posted without any press.
It must be without press.
It must be off the record.
And where they just come in, they get to see Dr. Burns, and he'll talk for the economic policy and everything.
He is, incidentally, much more optimistic on the economy than he and Conley both in the council.
He says they're just wrong, he believes.
Isn't that interesting?
I'm delighted to hear that.
You're looking at retail sales, for example, things like that.
Yeah.
He says they were adjusted upwards recently, yesterday.
Oh, with a tremendous adjustment for August.
I think I read you the August revised figures.
It's a hell of a month.
Which, of course, he said changed the quarter, too.
But be that as it may.
Well, I think Grady, I'm delighted he's upbeat.
Of course, if you use those Schultz charts with him, he's pretty hard put to say.
Well, that's why he's turning upbeat.
You see my point?
Yep.
So we've got him going, so you follow up on it.
I'll make full use of that one.
All right.
I'll follow up.
Talk to Pete.
Will do, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
NARA Description
On October 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 2:42 pm to 2:50 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 013-031 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 013-031
Date: October 29, 1971
Time: 2:42 pm - 2:50 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
[See Conversation No. 302-13]
Louis P. Harris Poll
-Washington Post coverage
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
The President conferred with Henry A. Kissinger at 2:42 pm.
Entrance
[End of conferral]
Harris Poll
-Newsweek
**********************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/08/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[013-031-w001]
[Duration: 6s]
Harris poll
-Possible effect on Edmund S. Muskie presidential candidacy
**********************************************************************
Previous Senate vote
-President's call to Hugh Scott
Henry A. Kissinger
Scott
-Activities
-Statement on United Nations [UN]
**********************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/08/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
[013-031-w003]
[Duration: 29s]
Harris poll
-Washington D.C.
-Charles Colson's conversation with DeVan L. Shumway
-Columnists and political writers interest in poll
**********************************************************************
Vietnam
-Casualties
-Press coverage
UN vote on Taiwan
-Videotape of vote
-Kissinger's viewing
-National Broadcasting Company [NBC]
-Length
-George H. W. Bush
-Comments on vote
-Conversations with delegates
-Vote
-Political effect
-Henry C. Cashen, II
-Attendance at Navy League meeting
-Support of President
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson's comments
-President's forthcoming trip to Peoples Republic of China [PRC]
Arthur F. Burns
-Previous conversation with President
-Liquidity
-Colson's forthcoming conversation with Peter M. Flanigan
-Publicity
-Gustave L. Levy
-Bernard J. ("Bunny") Lasker
-Albert H. Gordon
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Burns
-Public comments
-Calvin Bullitt dinner
-Possible dinner
-Press
-Views on national economy
-John B. Connally
-Retail sales
-George P. Shultz's chartsAlso recorded on October 29, 1971
- 013-029 2:39 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Mamie G. Eisenhower talked on the telephone from 2:39 pm to 2:41 pm.
- 302-011 2:39 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Mamie G. Eisenhower met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:39 pm to 2:41 pm.
- 013-030 2:41 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:41 pm and 2:42 pm.
- 302-012 2:41 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:41 pm and 2:42 pm.
- 302-013 2:42 PM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Henry A. Kissinger, Rose Mary Woods, and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:42 pm to 2:50 pm.
- 013-032 2:58 PM · 27 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 2:58 pm to 2:59 pm.
- 013-033 2:59 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:59 pm and 3:06 pm.
- 302-014 3:05 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:05 pm and 3:06 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 013-031, October 29, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/013-031 (accessed September 30, 2026).