Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 13 › Conversation 013-062

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Foreign Aid and Vietnam War

Monday, November 1, 1971 · 8:12 PM–8:17 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation013-062 on Tape 13 (tape position 02:27:58–02:32:39)StartMonday, November 1, 1971 at 8:12 PMEndMonday, November 1, 1971 at 8:17 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 013-062 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss the political strategy surrounding the administration's foreign aid program following a recent legislative setback. They coordinate efforts to ensure Secretary of State William P. Rogers publicly reinforces a hard-line stance, similar to recent statements made by Melvin Laird, to avoid compromising on security versus development assistance. Additionally, they review Vietnam casualty reporting and strategize the push for a 30-day continuing resolution to maintain legislative authority.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 1 minute of this recording (about 18% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mr. President.
You feeling better?
I'm feeling fine.
Ryland worked on you, Tommy.
Yeah.
Yeah, good.
Yeah, Ryland is great.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Laird made a good statement.
Apparently he made two networks.
Oh, good.
And did just exactly what we said.
Said it would endanger our withdrawal of troops and, you know, a lot of other things.
They didn't put him on NBC.
That's what I was wondering.
What is on CBS and ABC.
Right.
So that's pretty good.
Well, that's good.
And I had heard from Ziegler that he did what we had asked him.
Yeah.
NBC, it's the only network he didn't make.
He made the other two.
Well, that I think is doing very well.
Right.
No, it was, that was, and I think in general that's beginning to change.
Well, we'll get Rogers tomorrow to do the same thing.
And Colson talked to him.
I mean, not Colson, but Scali has talked to him.
Durante?
Yes.
Oh, good.
Since he got back.
Got him on the same hard line, you know, with Schumann.
Well, that's essential.
I think if we start talking compromise the second day into the battle, that would be it.
And besides, the only compromise that they've talked about is to split off security assistance from development assistance.
And that's more likely to backfire than to help us.
Yep, that's right.
Well, we just put it on the basis the House will never take that.
The House will just go up in arms.
Right.
And, of course, the real reason is that it would have a tendency then of freezing the security assistance into the Foreign Affairs Committee, Foreign Relations Committee, which, for other reasons, we may not want.
Yeah.
I mean, if we let them have it, they feel that way.
Well, we can make this, we can turn this to our advantage.
That's what I think.
Instead of having to, you know, they have a tactical victory on Friday, and if you could get the, you know, get the damn thing through a, you know, continued resolution for 30 days, you know, that's something that we keep going.
I know the radio was crowing about it today.
They were putting out a statement that it shows the countries of Southeast Asia what reliance on the United States means.
pretty good point to make.
I think we are getting it out.
Our casualties last week were four.
There was a helicopter crash on Saturday that killed ten.
I don't know whether they're going to report it this week or next week.
The combat casualties were four.
That's the maximum.
But it may have happened too late to be recorded this way.
Well, it seems that that casualty didn't get as much help as it helped some.
Well, it's... No, I don't think any...
Even if it's 14, it's still low.
But on Vietnam, almost nothing as such will help except the general trend.
Yeah, but the more I think about it, the strategy we have now is making a low-key...
You might prepare McMahon the way you prepared Laird.
Because he will want to stay.
And I think you can rely on him to keep it.
Oh, sure, sure.
Get Rogers on board.
Well, he has to be on board, because that's the way it's going to be.
Well, but I have no doubt that he will be.
He'll understand, because what you're going to do, he knows, you're telling him, but he knows about this, but nobody does.
That's right.
You've just got to take this one last thing and push it.
Well, I don't think you'll give any trouble.
We can get that continued resolution before you blow it up.
Well, we have to get it before then, because the authority runs out.
Right.
Well, I think we're going to get it.
Fire right on.
Okay?
Okay.

NARA Description

On November 1, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 8:12 pm to 8:17 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 013-062 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 013-062

       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542

Date: November 1, 1971
Time: 8:12 pm - 8:17 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Kissinger's health
          -W. Kenneth Riland

     Foreign aid program
          -Melvin R. Laird's statement
                -Troops
                -Press coverage
                -Kissinger's conversation with Ronald L. Ziegler
          -William P. Rogers’ forthcoming statement
                -John A. Scali's efforts
                      -Charles W. Colson
          -Options
                -Security assistance
                -Development assistance
                -Effect
                      -Foreign Relations Committee
          -Hanoi Radio's comments

     Vietnam
          -Casualties
               -Helicopter crash

     Foreign aid program
          -President's possible conversation with William McMahon
                -Laird
          -Rogers’ forthcoming statement
          -Kissinger's Vietnam negotiations
          -Continuing resolution

Also recorded on November 2, 1971

  • 013-060 7:42 PM · 21 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 7:42 pm to 8:03 pm.
  • 013-061 8:03 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:03 pm and 8:12 pm.
  • 611-001 8:15 AM · 2 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:15 am and 8:43 am.
  • 013-063 8:43 AM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:43 am and 9:19 am.
  • 611-002 8:43 AM · 56 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:43 am to 9:32 am.
  • 013-064 9:19 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:19 am to 9:20 am.
  • 611-003 9:32 AM · 1 hr 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:32 am to 10:45 am.
  • 611-004 10:50 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:50 am to 10:59 am.

All 58 conversations from November 2, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 013-062, November 2, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/013-062 (accessed October 12, 2026).