Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 13 › Conversation 013-096
Nixon phone call with Mitchell on School busing and Department of Justice
Wednesday, November 3, 1971 · 11:10 AM–11:17 AM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Attorney General John Mitchell discuss the possibility of the Department of Justice intervening in a Grand Rapids, Michigan, school busing case following concerns raised by Representative Gerald Ford and Senator Robert Griffin. The President urges Mitchell to signal administration opposition to busing during upcoming appearances with Michigan lawmakers and to investigate similar intervention potential in Detroit. Additionally, the pair reviews the positive results of the recent November 2nd mayoral elections, specifically noting the strong support from Philadelphia's Frank Rizzo and the successful reelection of mayors in Cleveland, Indianapolis, and San Diego.
- School busing
- Department of Justice
- Gerald R. Ford
- Elections
- Frank L. Rizzo
- Federal intervention
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data
· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Each line starts with a timestamp button; press it to play the audio from that point.
Hello.
Yes, Mr. President.
Jerry Ford talked to me about a Grand Rapids case.
The case involves a...
of all things, a Republican judge, not appointed by us, but he's the son of Al Engle, who used to be in the Congress, remember?
Yes, I did.
And he's Republican, but not very bright, as indicated by this decision.
He's ordered a busing plan or an integration plan in Grand Rapids.
He's ordered a plan that would, like some of them have, consider mixing the suburbs with the city core.
Mixing the suburbs.
Yeah.
Now, let me ask this.
Jerry, of course, feels that it both naturally is concerned about that, but he's thinking more in terms of Griffin.
And, of course, as you know, they've got that recall on Hart, that if this could be one of those cases where you could see your way clear to intervene, you know, to say this goes beyond the Supreme Court thing or whatever the hell it is,
that, like you did in, you know, Texas and Tennessee.
And it occurred to me that you're going to do Griffin, I understand, or something.
Yes, sir.
But if you could do that, and do it just before you went up there, it could have one hell of an impact.
But I don't know.
I've talked to Jerry about it, and also to Bob Griffin.
We also have, in the same posture out there, Detroit.
And I've got a study being made to see if there's a possible way that we could credibly intervene in the picture.
Right.
Well, if you'd let Jerry know that I've talked to you about it, he was there to see me yesterday.
I told him I would mention it to you.
Very good.
And so if you'll tell him I've talked to him, and in any event, I mean, just put all the goddamn rhetoric in you can when you're up there, I mean, putting me on the side against busing.
I know this breaks your heart to do that, but please do it.
I'll be delighted.
I was pleased with the mayoralty races, weren't you?
Yes.
We got Rizzo, which is the one we wanted.
Don't you agree?
Very much so.
And the Cleveland oddity is a good one.
That's right.
The Lugar situation came out far better than was anticipated.
62%.
And we got San Diego, you know.
Yes.
Young Wilson won 63% of the vote.
I think that in balance we came out pretty good.
I have called, incidentally, all the winners.
I've called Rizzo, I've called Perk, and I called, uh, actually, uh, not Bulan, but, uh, Lugar, and, uh,
the fellow out in California, Wilson.
Good.
So it's good to have some of these guys.
Was Rizzo responsive?
All the way, believe me.
Immediately after I called him, and I found this out because Rose called Annenberg at my suggestion to be sure we followed up,
Said that, look, he says, you don't need to worry about it.
He says, after the president called him Rizzo, called him long distance in London, repeated everything the president told him on the phone.
I talked to Walter last week, and he had been talking to Rizzo, and everything was still on.
Yeah.
We've got to keep that one very close.
That's one we really need.
It could be a tremendous help.
Yeah.
And I don't see how they can turn him around, frankly.
NARA Description
On November 3, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 11:10 am to 11:17 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 013-096 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 013-096
Date: November 3, 1971
Time: 11:10 am - 11:17 am
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with John N. Mitchell.
[See Conversation No. 301-7Q]
Grand Rapids, Michigan case
-Gerald R. Ford's conversation with President
-Judge Albert J. Engel, Jr.
-Father Albert J. Engel
-Busing order
-Ford’s concern
-Robert P. Griffin
-Philip A. Hart
-Recall
-Mitchell's possible intervention
-Texas and Tennessee cases
-Timing
-Mitchell's conversations
-Ford
-Griffin
-Detroit situation
-Possible Department of Justice intervention
-Mitchell's forthcoming conversation with Ford
Mitchell's schedule
-Dinner for Griffin
-Possible remarks
-Busing
Elections, November 2nd
-Frank L. Rizzo
-Cleveland
-Richard G. Lugar
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Pete Wilson
**********************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/08/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[013-096-w001]
[Duration: 1m 40s]
Kentucky gubernatorial election
-Republican loss
-Differences between gubernatorial and senatorial races
-Importance of local issues
-President’s impact on election outcome
-John N. Mitchell's conversation with editor of Louisville Courier
-Thomas D. Emberton
New Jersey
-State legislature elections
-State House
-State Senate
-Frank S. ("Hap") Farley
-Election loss
-Essex County
-Washington Post coverage
-Description of elections as referendum on President’s economic policy
**********************************************************************
-President's telephone calls
-Rizzo, Perk
-Buhlen[?]
-Lugar, Wilson
-Rizzo
-Support for administration
-Call to Walter H. Annenberg
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Rose Mary Woods’ call to the President
-Mitchell's call to Annenberg
**********************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/08/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[013-096-w002]
[Duration: 1m 46s]
Milton J. Shapp
-Role in Philadelphia mayoral election
-Opposition to Frank L. Rizzo in primary election
-Contrasted with W. Thacher Longstreth
-Base of support for W. Thacher Longstreth
-Black
-Young
-Poor
-John N. Mitchell’s opinion
-Pennsylvania politics
Pittsburgh
-Local elections
-Victory of Robert Duggan
-Congressional election
-[Henry] John (“Jack”) Heinz, III
-Robert Duggan
-District attorney race
-Richard G. Kleindienst's efforts in district attorney race
Favorability of election results in an off-year
Linwood Holton
-Son
-Helps president
-Work with Democrats
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
**********************************************************************Also recorded on November 3, 1971
- 013-091 10:10 AM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:10 am and 10:41 am.
- 013-092 10:41 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Pete Wilson talked on the telephone from 10:41 am to 10:43 am.
- 013-093 10:44 AM · 32 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 10:44 am to 10:45 am.
- 013-094 10:45 AM · 3 min — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 11:10 am.
- 013-095 10:45 AM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:45 am and 11:10 am.
- 013-097 12:16 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:16 pm.
- 013-098 12:16 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:20 pm.
- 301-008 12:16 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 12:16 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 013-096, November 3, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/013-096 (accessed October 12, 2026).