{"conversationCode":"013-142","tapeNumber":13,"conversationNumber":142,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-013-142","startDateTime":"1971-11-05T00:43:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-05T00:44:00.000Z","startDate":"4-Nov-1971","startTime":"7:43 PM","endDate":"4-Nov-1971","endTime":"7:44 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On November 4, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 7:43 pm to 7:44 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 013-142 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 013-142\n\nDate: November 4, 1971\nTime: 7:43 pm - 7:44 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.\n\n     President's previous conversation with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n           -Ehrlichman's schedule\n\n     Earl L. Butz\n           -Possible appointment\n           -Frederic V. Malek\n           -Bryce N. Harlow\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n             -John C. Whitaker\n             -John Kyl\n                  -Forthcoming meeting with Whitaker","filename":["013-142.mp3"],"tapeStart":"04:13:08","tapeEnd":"04:14:39","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"013-141","nextCode":"013-143","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":18.8,"text":"John, I talked to Bob and he told me you're going to Boston, so I... Let me ask you about the button thing, John."},{"start":18.82,"end":19.82,"text":"You're sort of high on that."},{"start":19.84,"end":27.57,"text":"Well, the Triumvirate, Malick and Harlow and Whitaker, have really exhaustively looked at this, and that's their strong recommendation."},{"start":27.59,"end":28.67,"text":"I still haven't met him."},{"start":29.09,"end":42.41,"text":"but I would defer to their collective judgment on that."},{"start":42.43,"end":45.63,"text":"One problem that occurs to me is his name."},{"start":45.65,"end":46.15,"text":"Yeah, yeah, that's there."},{"start":46.17,"end":46.83,"text":"I can just see the farmer's name."},{"start":46.85,"end":50.92,"text":"The other thing that just occurred to me, it's a long shot, but one of the more impressive members of that agriculture committee is that John Kyle."},{"start":50.94,"end":53.7,"text":"Well, I noticed you take up on that."},{"start":53.72,"end":57.63,"text":"He's a farmer, he's a scholar, and he's strong."},{"start":58.7,"end":62.65,"text":"and, you know what I mean, is highly regarded."},{"start":62.67,"end":64.03,"text":"Would you run that by?"},{"start":64.11,"end":64.39,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":64.51,"end":65.51,"text":"I sure will."},{"start":65.53,"end":65.69,"text":"Okay."},{"start":65.71,"end":69.14,"text":"As a matter of fact, Whitaker's going up to see him first thing in the morning."},{"start":69.22,"end":70.1,"text":"Doesn't he impress you?"},{"start":70.12,"end":70.38,"text":"Yes."},{"start":70.94,"end":71.84,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":71.86,"end":75.5,"text":"He's a scholarly guy, and incidentally, he's always on the right side."},{"start":75.6,"end":80.53,"text":"He's so reasonable about things, and I think he'd be a good salesman."},{"start":80.75,"end":85.51,"text":"Well, I'll make a point of having Whitaker drive him out a little bit in the morning."},{"start":85.53,"end":85.63,"text":"Good."},{"start":85.65,"end":85.87,"text":"All right."},{"start":85.89,"end":87.45,"text":"Tell him to look at him with that in mind."},{"start":87.47,"end":87.61,"text":"Right."},{"start":87.63,"end":87.73,"text":"Good."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the potential appointment of Earl L. Butz as Secretary of Agriculture, with Nixon expressing concerns regarding Butz's name. They deliberate on the recommendation of the \"Triumvirate\"—Frederic Malek, Bryce Harlow, and John Whitaker—while considering an alternative candidate, Representative John Kyl. Nixon instructs Ehrlichman to have Whitaker evaluate Kyl's suitability during an upcoming meeting, tasking them with assessing whether Kyl would be a strong political asset.","topics":["Earl L. Butz","Cabinet appointments","John Kyl","Personnel selection","Department of Agriculture"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-05T23:54:46.170Z"},"topicSlugs":["earl-l-butz","cabinet-appointments","john-kyl","personnel-selection","department-of-agriculture"],"audioDurationSec":90,"audioFiles":[{"file":"013-142.mp3","bytes":2160430,"durationSec":89.96,"bitrate":192122,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:22.041Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:36.419Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/013-142.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/013-142","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/13/conversation-013-142","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}