Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 14 › Conversation 014-012

Nixon phone call with Colson on Pay Board and George Meany

Wednesday, November 10, 1971 · 2:27 PM–2:28 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Colson, Charles W.Conversation014-012 on Tape 14 (tape position 00:05:21–00:09:01)StartWednesday, November 10, 1971 at 2:27 PMEndWednesday, November 10, 1971 at 2:28 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 014-012 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss ongoing efforts to stabilize the Pay Board and manage organized labor relations ahead of a critical meeting with George Meany. Colson reports that Frank Fitzsimmons has been instrumental in brokering cooperation for the administration's Phase II economic policies and suggests that Meany would not oppose potential clemency for Jimmy Hoffa. The conversation reinforces the administration's commitment to a 5.5 percent wage increase target to ensure economic stability.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mr. Carlton.
Well, welcome back, Mr. President.
How are you?
Good.
You had a good trip, sir.
Yeah.
What's going on here?
Anything in particular?
Well, I've been spending most of my waking hours and some of my sleeping hours working on the pay board and the media situation.
I think we've got it as well under control at the moment as...
as can be expected.
I won't bore you with all the intricate details, but I think we've got it glued together at the moment, and there's a meeting tomorrow at which most of the detailed regulations will be worked out.
It looks to me from my vantage point that the regulations, if people don't get too tough tomorrow, are going to come out in such a way that Meany's principal objection will be met and will be
off and running from there.
He's publicly stated that he's going to do nothing before the convention, but that he will put his position before the convention.
He told Schultz today, however, in an off-the-record conversation that he and Schultz had, a conversation which never took place, but did take place, that if this problem were straightened out tomorrow, he'd have no reason not to.
He can't put it before the convention.
Hell, that'll ruin it.
Well, that's why we need to work it out tomorrow, and we've been doing...
You know, I'd still like to do that damn convention, provided it isn't, this doesn't, this isn't gonna, this 5.5 is a goddamn good figure, Chuck.
I guess everybody realizes that.
Bullish.
Bullish as hell, Mr. President.
Just bullish as hell.
Businessmen ought to see that.
They do.
I mean, the big game here was next year, and god darn, we got a bunch of little people who get in there and, well, you know how a negotiation is.
They get hung up over their own points of view and their own principles, but
i think the odds are it's going to be worked out tomorrow um and that's what i think i know i figured you could do last year so you got to take a bump up for a little over a month or two then it'll uh but if you get it 5.5 then it means you've taken the poison out of the damn thing that's right you almost don't even take a bump up the way this works out because the the way they did it monday night it i mean what we do tomorrow won't add to the bump up or down really it's good but i i think that well it it
Believe me, this is a very tough area to work in because you have to keep a low profile, and you've got a lot of volatile personalities.
But I think we've got it as well on track as possible, and we've been getting a hell of a lot of help from Fitz.
He's just been, God, he has been magnificent.
You still think we do the other thing?
Yes, sir.
And I have a read back for you on that from Maney, which is that he would not be unhappy to see it.
which I think is very interesting, thinks he's done his time and would not blow on it.
So that's one base that's covered.
No, Fitz has been marvelous.
He's been brokering things for us.
I have a speech he gave that he's caught a lot of hell for from labor because he praises you, praises Phase II, says it's going to work, he's going to make it work.
and says if anybody's got any with the democrats right really was just terrific i spent a fascinating evening last night which went up to sinlinger's pulling out oh yeah yeah and he's got a device where you can listen in to his all of his interviewers talking to people incidentally i've uh i've got to go out and uh uh and uh just check something here i've got a sign for a minute uh i'll call you back in a couple of minutes okay yes sir fine

NARA Description

On November 10, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 2:27 pm to 2:28 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 014-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 14-12

Date: November 10, 1971
Time: 2:27 pm - 2:28 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with the White House operator.

     Charles W. Colson

[See Conversation No. 299-6]

The President talked with Colson.

     The President's trip to Chicago

     National economy
          -Pay Board
                -George Meany
                -Forthcoming meeting, November 11
                      -Regulations
                -Meany
                      -Conversation with George P. Shultz, November 10
                      -Convention
                -Wage increases
                -Frank E. Fitzsimmons’ efforts

     James R. (“Jimmy”) Hoffa
          -Possible clemency
                -Meany's views

     National economy
          -Fitzsimmons’ speech
                -Organized labor’s reaction
                -Phase II
                -Democrats

     Colson's meeting with Albert E. Sindlinger, November 9
          -Phone interview system

     The President's schedule
          -Return call

Also recorded on November 10, 1971

  • 299-006 2:27 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:27 pm to 2:28 pm.
  • 014-013 2:28 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:28 pm and 2:34 pm.
  • 299-007 2:28 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:28 pm and 2:34 pm.
  • 299-008 2:28 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:28 pm and 2:34 pm.
  • 014-014 2:34 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 2:34 pm to 2:45 pm.
  • 299-009 2:34 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:34 pm to 2:45 pm.
  • 014-015 2:45 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:45 pm and 2:50 pm.
  • 299-010 2:45 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:45 pm and 2:50 pm.

All 47 conversations from November 10, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 014-012, November 10, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/014-012 (accessed September 30, 2026).